Intro and Lists
It took a little finagling due to some weather and schedules, but forum-user Cartwright and I got in another game, opting to try a rematch of Battle 020. I had a wonderful time then, but it was not a particularly good showing for me or a impressive debut for my multi-system Stormcast Ogres. We had traded ideas about the lists in the days after the game, and decided to run the match-up again for this battle, to see what we learned. Fielding his's son's Undead army again, my opponent ran the following:
Yowza! I liked the versatility of the original list, and that it played in every phase, but my opponent ended up dropping all of the artillery for a titanic Vampire Lord on Undead Dragon. Lacking units with Individual, I think the Ogres could struggle a lot against even one flier, so this could be very rough unless I could somehow ground the flier. The duos of Wraiths, Soul Reaver infantry and Wights return for the rematch here, with the latter gaining some magic items to further increase their potency. The Zombies were reorganized for the rematch. Just a pair of cheap regiments for drops and scoring, accompanied by a larger tar-pitting horde.
Some rat-swarm Deathpack join to screen for the Soul Reavers, and the lower height of the Deathpack should let the vampires charge at stuff if they want to while still being quite the nuisance themselves, providing cover to the vampires while being Stealthy and speedy. I think these will work well. The Liches were downgraded to Revenant Kings, which was a suggestion to save some points. The Kings and Necromancer take a handful of magic items to Surge and Heal, and we'll see how this split in supporting spells works out.
As mentioned, the timing game was a little difficult, juggling prospective dates over the course of about a week. I had already packed some Ogres up with a few other armies as options for a demo game out at a shop (which ended up being Battle 024). I didn't want to have to pull stuff from box to box, so I couldn't run my original "Version 2" of the Ogres, which I thought up back in November based on some of the post-game discussions. Fortunately I had hobbied up a few more toys for them in the meantime, and came up with this "Version 3" titled list you'll likely see in some of the photos, letting me run the extra stuff I had, test many of the ideas I had before for Version 2, plus a few new ones! Up to test are:
- Shooters Regiments. The previous Shooter Hordes were rather ineffective. Due to my poor positioning, they were constantly moving, significantly negating their damage output at range, and just not delivering. I thought they by running regiments instead, I could either deploy them early to zone out and dissuade my opponent from taking certain routes, or deploy them late as ranged anti-chaff and to make sure they have targets.
- Boomer Horde. The Boomer regiments were intriguing, but lackluster last game. They really need to be facing off against infantry-only sections of an opposing battle line in order to get their shots off untouched. They were neat units, but felt hard to use effectively. The idea here is to run a horde instead, increasing both their attacks and durability (Nerve), and hopefully turning them into more of a blunt instrument able to shotgun or smash through a few units.
- Warriors. Up to speed now on the Ogre unlocks, Warriors are still great for their points, but not as amazing as they once were, since only the first three regiments will unlock. Since some Def5 units were packed up already for the demo game, I opted for a 2-2 split between units with two-handers and units with Def5, to see how those options felt directly compared to each other.
- Siege Breakers. With stuff backed up for the demo game, I ended up running a regiment and a horde here from the reinforcements, to test how the different sizes felt. I think most Ogre players will want two hordes of these though, as they are just so solid and dangerous.
- Sergeants with Heavy Crossbows. I saw the unit entry after our previous battle and decided to hobby some up. They have great range and Steady Aim, if only at a 5+ to hit. That still seems worth exploring. I'm bringing a pair since the third is packed up for the demo game.
- Ogre Warlock with Drain Life. I was juggling stuff around to finish up the list, and found that I had both the points and an open slot, so opted to try this spell out. We'll see how I do for unit positioning, how the spell is, and how long I can keep it boosted with the special rule.
- Grokagamok (unique combatant). I don't think my mini is quite threatening enough, but it'll work. This guy looks ridiculous with Blast on melee attacks. I have no idea how to calculate the expected damage output from him and we'll see how he does. The Nerve of 15/17 is more fragile than you'd think, so my only goal with him is to have him charge first, in order to maximize his damage output. We'll see how he does!
- Nomagarok (unique caster). Another new addition, this unique warlock has very a nice suite of spells, giving access to Bane Chat, Heal, and Lightning Bolt, all of which can be boosted with its own Ogre Warlock special rule. There is a Bloodlust special rule, granting Vicious to anything healed by the character, which I will try to remember. All in all, the unique character looks to provide some very nice utility without breaking the bank.
We had the same number of drops, and the same overall unit strength. The Undead had a massive flier, but I had some shooting. It was shaping up to be an interesting rematch!
Table, Terrain, Deployment
We are almost done with working through the book scenarios, having just Kill and Loot left. Not liking Kill, we went with Loot for this game, and generated the table. Buildings are height 9 blocking terrain, Hills height 3, the forests height 6 difficult terrain and the fences height 2 obstacles. My opponent placed his token to the left of the central token, and I continued the trend, putting a everything on one half of the table.
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| The Table! All the important bits fit into one picture right now. |
My opponent started on my left with Wraiths, and then just moved down the line with all the Zombies, Death Packs, Soul Reaver infantry and characters. He is usually focused on battle groups, so I started going wide, and then felt a little off guard when the Wights and Dragon came down at the end. I was originally expecting them there, and kinda played myself.
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| Positioning on the left. |
So, from the left, my opponent has two Wraiths screening two Wight Hordes. I believe the one on the edge has the Brew. They are accompanied by the Revenant King with Heal, and the mighty Vampire Lord on Undead Dragon. Unfortunately, since my opponent had to drive, we were concerned that the huge resin beast might get bumped in transit, so tonight the part of the undead titan will be played by my Monarch. (The real deal is quite impressive, and can be seen briefly in Battle 005 since it was on the other side of the table, and more in Battle 017.) The undead line continues with the two Zombie Regiments and Horde supported by the other Revenant King, and then the doubles of Deathpack screening the Soul Reavers, supported by the healing Necromancer.
From my left, I have two Shooter Regiments and a Sergeant with Crossbow. The angled Shooter Regiment and Sergeant came down early to try and ping the Wraiths. The regiment further back on my left was my last drop, deployed late to try and do the same, or stop the Dragon with some shooting. Just... stopping something with shooting was the goal. Nearby, both flavors of Warriors and the Warlock were to make use of the nearby building.
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| The center. Early drops were all back 6" or more, since I wanted to leverage shooting. These units all deployed pretty late, and deployed nearer the line. |
Then we had Grok, the Siege Breaker Horde, Nom and another Sergeant in front of the Siege Breaker Regiment, and the Boomer Horde. Since I don't play the same list often, I was winging things, but figured running all these nearby would be hard for someone to deal with.
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| My lonely right flank. The edge of the table is juuuust in frame. I had deployed them at an angle while trying to cover more of the table. Which is fortunate, as they are going to need to move. |
Off on my right, we had Warriors supporting the Boomers, and then in the corner, we had early drops of a Shooter Regiment and Two-Handing Warriors. As we had finished deployment, my opponent mentioned he had been considering putting the Undead Dragon way out here, but decided against it. I pressed, but the decision had to do with his own plans, and he was not dissuaded like the early Shooters like I had been hoping!
I win the roll off, and with shooting, I opt to go first.
Top of Round 1: Ogres
With nothing opposing them, the Shooters on my right move at the double with the Warriors, looking to collapse in towards the center. With the hills around, the Shooters weren't going to have shots all game if they stayed put.
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| Units on the right move up, making use of the hills. |
The Boomer Horde secured the forest for now while the nearby Warriors snuck around the hill, looking to be a bother to the Soul Reavers in the coming turns.
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| The center just moves up, not wanting to press too hard. I have shooting, after all. |
My center had pushed up slightly. The Warlock and Nom, with their boosted spells, threw lightning into the swarming rats of the Deathpack on the left, dealing 5 damage. I decide to be greedy and the Sergeant makes his shots at the other unit, dealing 1 damage. Guess which one wavers? Yep, the Sergeant's lucky shot is even luckier. I think splitting fire was a mistake though. If I'm shooting at a Stealthy unit across the table, I really should be focus-firing and trying to make certain I get the rout.
On my left, the late-to-arrive Shooters had to move up. I had deployed a little too far back and nothing was within 30". They move up, and everything shoots at the Wraiths near the board edge. Nothing hits at all, and the Shooters are already stressing me out a little.
Bottom of Round 1: Undead
The Undead on my left are predominately shambling, and being unscathed so far, dutifully just shuffle forward towards the tokens and the enemy. The one unit here that isn't Shambling is the Vampire Lord on Undead Dragon, who moves at the double, and makes a nice nimble pivot to threaten all three units on my left with a possible charge next turn.
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| "Rawr, I am more dead than I look." |
On my right, the more central pair of Deathpack and Soul Reavers are unfazed, and advance swiftly together, looking to instigate some fights very soon. The other Soul Reavers hop over the wavered swarm nearby, looking to support their comrades in the coming turns. Heal is attempted, but I believe fizzles.
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| Undead potentially charging on turn 2? Have mercy! |
Top of Round 2: Ogres
On my right, the pair of Warrior regiments swing wide. The sturdier group moves and pivots to take the hill, while the smashier group moves at the double, looking to just move as far as they can right now, so they can contribute later in the game. Pivoting can come later.
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| A thank you to my opponent for manning the big dice counter this game. I kept getting distracted. |
Realizing they have a shot, the Shooters on the right hold, and fire into the aggressive Soul Reavers. Something like 2 damage is done and I roll up Insane Courage for them. When all is said and done for the turn though, I realize that I forgot to shoot the Boomers, and my opponent lets me rewind for science, and the added damage brings them from 2 to 8 if memory serves, but we keep the Insane result.
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| Positioning in the center of the Ogres. |
Nom and the nearby Sergeant hide behind the obstacle and shoot into the other Soul Reaver Infantry regiment lagging behind, dealing I think 4 to them, which isn't bad. Both Soul Reaver units will hold though. The Siege Breaker Regiment advances, looking to bait a charge from something and see how their Big Shields hold up.
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| The left, with the big, scary dragon. |
Still boosted, the Warlock throws lightning towards the Undead Dragon, and the magic is joined by two full volleys from the Shooter Regiments, and some shots from the Sergeant. When all is done, 6 damage goes through. Running the numbers, that is very close to expected. Hitting on 5's is quite the hurdle!
Bottom of Round 2: Undead
The Vampire Lord decides he wants to shut down my shooting, and charges into the Shooter Regiment that I deployed so late. The Lord does heal back 2 with his Lifeleech, and dragon's blows are strong, but the hits aren't great, and he only deals 3 damage. The Shooters hold! We were surprised in-game at this result. While the dragon did flub, with only 10 attacks it does seem unlikely that it would rout a 12/14 regiment that was Inspired. He'd need to roll a little hot, and unfortunately did not.
The Wraiths continue to screen for the Wights, and one will even pick up a Loot Token. The Zombie blobs continue to advance, but can't quite reach any of the other tokens.
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| The Crossbow limbs are sticking out I think. And the tail is big. I don't think either of us was expecting the regiment to hold. We will tidy this up on my turn as things counter-charge and move around. |
My opponent's stuff on my right just goes for it. The previously wavered Deathpack is fine now, and charges the Warriors on the hill, dealing just 1 damage, and the Warriors hold. Their Soul Reavers charge the Siege Breaker Regiment, but due to the big shields, only deal a meager 4 damage, which is a little lower than average. The Breakers hold. The other Deathpack charges the Siege Breaker Horde, dealing 1 damage and just getting in the way. The last Soul Reavers are able to take the unsuspecting Warlock in the flank, dishing out 30 damage and ripping apart the poor caster. They will then change facing to get Grok and the two-hander Warriors into their front arc.
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| The Warlock was hit so hard he flew off his little Kings of War base. |
These were some unexpected charges out on my right. I was expecting a mess this turn but instead all these units managed to charge something different. I was quite fortunate that only one unit of mine fell!
Top of Round 3: Ogres
The Ogres throw themselves into some nasty counter attacks. Most of my units charge this turn, which seems good for the Ogres..
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| The fancy gold-clad ogres start a-swingin. |
On the left, the shooters collapse into the Dragon. They land about 10 damage (about average I think), and with Brutal, is able to pop the Vampire Lord. In victory, one unit backs up, and the flanking regiment changes facing. The Sergeant can't back up to escape the charge range on the Wraiths, so he charges a unit, looking to tie it and some Wights up in the coming turn, which should be a good trade for time. He has good stats and CS2, and rolls hot, landing a few damage, and with some good Nerve checks, the Wraiths here are swatted away, and he overruns to occupy the attention of the Wights. The trade just became much, much better for me here! The nearby shielded Warriors can see the flank of the other Wraiths, the ones with the token, and take what is given. With double attacks in the flank, these Wraiths are disbursed as well, though I opt not to pick up the token.
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| A bloody aftermath. A rough turn for the Undead. |
The two-handing Warriors join Grok in a frontal assault against the Soul Reavers, avenging the Ogre Warlock. Blast on melee turns out to be super-good here, and 5 hits bloom into 9, and these Soul Reavers are pasted. The Warriors overrun 6" to block, while Grok just pivots to eye up other enemies.
The Shield Breaker Horde countercharges the Deathpack, and squishes them, pivoting slightly and looking to help Grok.
The Shield Breaker Regiment countercharges the Soul Reavers. The Breakers were healed to full by Nom, but I forget to give them Vicious in the combat. They still roll well enough on their attacks, and the Regiment gets the Waver since the Reavers had taken some shooting damage already.
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| Ogres, running up that hill. |
The Boomers and Sergeant decide to shoot at the Necromancer, trying to remove the Heal and Inspiring here. They deal 5 damage, but the nefarious spellcaster holds firm.
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| Rats killed, hill secured! Unfortunately, nothing else to charge coming up. |
The Shooters pivot and move, taking no shots, and just looking to start marching onward to take the central Loot Token in the coming turns.
The last combat are the various Warriors on and around the hill, with both regiments charging the Deathpack, and just barreling through them. There were no other charges for them to take, and I figured it was best to try and double down on the attack here and be sure to remove them. Both will overrun, getting into the backfield of the Undead.
Bottom of Round 3: Undead
The Undead lost about a third of their army last turn, and things are looking a little grim. But, we're playing a scenario, so my opponent soldiers on, in search Loot Tokens.
The Wights are the scariest things remaining, and prove their reputation when they get into combat here. One horde cuts down the Ogre Sergeant with ease. The other horde has a front-charge into the Warriors, but my opponent opts to move and pivot. The Wights are then surged into the flank. The Wights start the Melee Phase on top of the token, and pick it up before slaughtering the regiment of Warriors. A Zombie Regiment joined the attack in the front, but the Warriors took so much damage from the Wights the we forgot to roll for the Zombies. All in all, a great play by my opponent here and a good use of Surge. The Zombies will pivot, looking to block, and the Wights will side-step, looking to put some distance between their new Loot and the Ogres.
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| The Wights arrive, eager for revenge. |
The other Zombies kinda muck stuff up, but I forget the particulars. The Horde ultimately just blocks, while the regiment walks up and picks up another Loot Token.
Top of Round 4: Ogres
The Ogres press their advantage and attack. The Warriors, Grok, and Siege Breaker Horde multi-charge the Zombie Horde. Grok hits 4 times, which blooms to 12 damage on his own. All the Crushing Strength is wasted, but I believe some 30 damage racked up and the horde is cut down! Both units will overrun, and Grok will simply change facing 90 degrees, eyeing up the Wights.
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| A wall of Zombies vs a wall of Ogres. |
The Sergeant joints the Shield Breaker Regiment against the wavered Soul Reaver Horde and bests them too. Both will pivot to face the Wights as well, and basically the entire Ogre line will turn towards them this turn.
I believe Nom and the Boomers continue to harass the Necromancer, and should land another 5 damage on him, routing him this time. The Boomers are touching the token, but will leave it for the Shooters to claim next turn.
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| The Zombies are flattened, and the ranged attacks routed something! |
Keeping on the right, the Shielded Warriors sprint into the Undead's backfield to play the potential very late game if the Wights try and flee, while the two-handers pivot in and look to help with the scenario.
Out on the left, some Shooters charge the Wights. They cannot get away, and are blocking the shots of the second unit, so this seemed prudent to get both units doing something this turn. The Wights should take a few damage, but hold. The other unit of Shooters shoots at the Loot-toting Wights, but does not land any damage.
Bottom of Round 4: Undead
The Undead are definitely on the back foot, but do still have 2 Loot Tokens to my 1.
The Wights with the Loot and the other Zombie regiment flank charge the Warriors, who also overran too far. Twenty-six damage lands (golf clap for the Zombies contributing 3), and the Warriors are completely shredded.
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| The angles were tricky! That was as far as the Zombies flanking the Siege Breakers could align with the Warriors in the way at the time. |
A Zombie Regiment makes a flank charge into the Siege Breakers that overran, dealing 4 damage, but the Breakers hold, I believe with an Insane Courage result.
The Ogres continue fighting, but are now gummed up a little themselves. The Boomers move up, but can't see anything to shoot. The Siege Breaker Horde is healed, and again I forget Vicious when they counter-charge the upstart Zombie Regiment and smash them down. Grok threads the needle making a charge into the Wights... but flubs on this rolls, landing just 3 damage I think. He's now in some trouble. The Siege Breaker Regiment attacks the Zombie regiment, and flubs as well, dealing just 2 to them.
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| Wave after wave of Ogre unit starts to arrive. |
The Shooters on the right finally claim the Loot Token, but shoot no shots this turn. The nearby Sergeant sidesteps, getting line of sight into the Wights. The Shooters back on my far left fire as well, roll a bit hot on the hits, and I believe 5 damage lands on the Wights, though they do easily hold.
Bottom of Round 5: Undead
The Wights and Zombies counter-charge Grok and the Siege Breaker Regiment, respectively. The Zombies deal 1 and Lifeleech down to 1 damage themselves. The Wights do better, landing 11 Damage on Grok and Wavering him. The Wights also Lifeleech some damage back. I don't recall if Heal helps at all, but they end up at 1 damage as well, which seems to be the trend here.
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| Mid-movement in the Bottom of Round 5. The second unit of Wights is about to move out! |
The second unit of Wights advances, trying to find a way to help as the game starts to swiftly wrap up.
Top of Round 6: Ogres
The Ogres are still tripping over themselves a bit, but are leading 2-1 with the Loot Tokens.
With Grok wavered, nothing can easily get to the Wights this turn to save him or try to wrest control of that token, so the Siege Breaker Horde prudently backs up with their own Loot Token. A Warrior regiment comes forth to screen, while the shielded on in the Undead deployment zone starts to move and pivot back towards the center.
Grok disengages, allowing Nom to throw lighting at the Wights, dealing 1 damage. The Shooters don't have a shot, and are content to play the scenario. The Boomers also do not have a shot or a charge, and so move up with hope. The Siege Breaker Regiment counter-charges the Zombie Regiment, but flubs again, dealing only 1 damage.
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| The Ogres must be tired. Those have been some poor melee results! |
The Sergeant and left Shooters again land some damage into the other lagging unit of Wights. They hold, and I think Heal has alleviated a bit, but the damage is starting to add up.
Bottom of Round 6: Undead
The Wights with the Loot charge and rout Grok, choosing to overrun towards the Warriors. The Zombies paw at the Siege Breaker Regiment, dealing another damage to them if memory serves. The final unit of Wights moves up, since it lacks charges and Surge opportunities.
It's 2-1 in favor of the Ogres, but we do roll up a round 7.
Top of Round 7: Ogres
The Sergeant and Shooters land a few more damage again on the unengaged Wights, routing the lurking unit this time.
The Siege Breaker Regiment finally gets its act together and routs the Zombies. Them sticking around so long definitely kept me opponent in the game.
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| Third time is the charm against the Zombies? |
The Warrior Regiment charges the Wights with the Loot, but they hold. I had considered charging in with the Shield Breakers as well (Shield Breakers would have been unhindered; Warriors would have aligned out into the woods and had been hintered), but ultimately decided against it.
My opponent disliked the risky idea as well. The score is 2-1 in my favor, and charging in with the Shield Breakers (who are carrying a token) just gives my opponent an avenue back into the game at the last possible second with a very likely and very strong countercharge. Had I planned a little more ahead (dropping the token and picking it up with something else, like the Boomer), that charge have been a much more attractive option, but I didn't think of it at the time. We're still learning the game, so opt for the more conservative play.
Bottom of Round 7: Undead
The Wights charge the Warriors, and should easily break them, but I don't recall the exact outcome, as it doesn't matter for the scenario. The Wights still hold a Loot Token, but the Ogres still have 2, making this a 2-1 victory for the Ogres!
Game Conclusions
Wow! What a savage game. In our previous two meetings I had been essentially tabled by Cartwright, so it was nice to return the favor, finally. I'll claw my way back to a respectable record yet!
We did each get an Insane Courage result during the game, but it was coming off of just a few damage each time, so neither result was all that ridiculous. But luck was on my side for sure, and Round 3 was hugely pivotal. Lots of Ogres charged, and lots of Undead units were just shattered. Nothing seemed outrageous for any of the rolls (save for maybe Grok's rolls), but just about everything ultimately broke in my favor by a pip or two that turn. Losing a third of the army in one turn was rough, really putting the Undead on the back foot. My opponent had some good moves but ultimately just could not recover from all the losses sustained in Round 3, and the Ogres were able to bully their way to a win.
Testing Conclusions
- Shooters Regiments. I'm still not entirely sold on them as a whole, but the regiments felt a lot better than hordes. A 30" range isn't that far, so positioning is still very important. Hitting on 5's and pot shot is also still rough, but regiments are less of an investment and so a little forgiving when you donk up with one of them. Despite a disappointing early salvo against the Wraiths, I will admit they did some great work this game, with the two regiments beating a dragon down and earning their poitns back before slowly picking away at the Wights.
- Boomer Horde. I liked the horde far more than the regiments. With only 12" range on the Boomsticks, they require a lot of thought for positioning. With regiments, that work will typically not payoff, as dice are dice. The horde focuses all that mental effort onto one unit, which with more shots, was more likely to be impactful, and with more Nerve, are more likely to survive if you mess something up. The opening turns were ok, especially with my opponent graciously letting me rewind to get that volley with them that I forgot to roll for, but eventually I just got them gummed up. Ultimately, I don't think I used them well this game, but I think the horde has a lot of potential.
- Warriors. I ran both options and actually liked both options. The shielded Def5 played some nice MSU, but having some cheap CS2 around seems like a good idea, so I think Ogre players might like a split while they develop their playstyle. Neither unit really accomplished much, but were very cheap drops and more bodies on the field, giving me good options as the game went on.
- Siege Breakers. Both sizes actually seemed ok, which was surprising to me. The regiments seem nice for "anti-chaff" duties, battering away enemy chaff, then holding with Def6, and thus enabling some Ogre counter-attacks, but being a great and reliable unit, I still think most Ogre players will just want two hordes of these, as those are easier to use.
- Sergeants with Heavy Crossbows. I did not get a great feel for them, but the potential is definitely there, and the duo did some great work this game. Even just having the one around late game to apply some additional pressure at range was nice. I even forgot about Elite during the game, so yeah, these seem like a great option for the Ogres.
- Ogre Warlock with Drain Life. Well, he certainly didn't last long! Due to his early demise, there is not much to say here. I remembered the Ogre Warlock rule, and boosted every cast I think, so that was nice. I did not get to play around with Drain Life though, so will need to explore that spell another time.
- Grokagamok (unique combatant). Goal achieved? He got into three different combats, carrying two and then flubbing hard against the Wights, and he was only charged after that poor showing. That's a good outing in my book. Blast was a lot of fun to use in melee, and with all that CS he seems poised to hit pretty hard generally, though not as hard as a Horde of similar cost, so you still need to protect him a bit. Fortunately, his footprint is pretty small. Speaking of, I also think I used his Nimble well this game - a facet of the game I know I need to improve on.
- Nomagarok (unique caster). I was very impressed with Nom. Getting boosted spells is amazing, and his spell selection brings a lot to the table. He's just a really cool unit, and very cheap for the astounding utility that he brings. I even kept forgetting about gaining Vicious on things that he had healed! Nom likes a great pick for any Ogre list.
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