Years ago, I bookmarked this thread. It was about my dear old Empire and a concept of playing called MSU, or "multiple small units."
I even took notes on it! I was pretty fresh out of college, and still wayyy deep in that habit when I picked up this hobby. The thread was a wonderful overview, and really helped me learn the basics and then build my own successful MSU army (..for Warriors of Chaos).
Anyways, from Smithf's old post, and numerous other discussion threads in the WoC and Empire forums, I compiled a "checklist" of elements that a good 8th Edition Warhammer MSU force should consider. It is below...
· Healthy amount of S5 Attacks
· Solid Leadership/Panic Protection
· Fast, mobile Supporting Units
· Good Support via Magic and/or Shooting
· Stubborn/Unbreakable Troops
· Wizard hunting tools
· Good magic defense/dispel ability
· Minimal characters
· Having units that can Flee a charge
· Having units that can potentially make long charges like flyers or cavalry
Checklists can be amazing. Mine helped me build more focused lists, and have a better idea (prior to play testing) what the lists strengths and weaknesses were. All that, in turn, aided my decision making in deployment, and then helped me again in the in-game decisions I was making. Creating and using the checklist, essentially creating a "know thyself" situation for me and my lists, had a wonderful ripple effect on my playing.
Now, while I have reined in my excessive note taking a bit, I’m usually still not far from a note pad (old habits die hard), and have been jotting down KoW ideas as they pop into my head. The notes hit a critical mass, and I figured I’d write a post to try and rough out my newbie thoughts with MSU and Kings of War, as it relates to the outdated list above. Below is my rough draft at an "MSU Checklist" for Kings of War. I'll be referencing it as I continue to play and test my MSU lists:
· Ready access to Crushing Strength, Pierce, Thunderous Charge (or Bane-Chant). I want to do damage, and these are the easiest special rules/abilities to get the job done. Bane-Chant works in a pinch, but having the others abilities already on a unit is better, as I won't be relying on a spell or even investing in a wizard.
· Inspiring bubbles where needed. Inspiring is cool, but in MSU, even with a reroll, a lot of my Troops will simply just Rout with an average roll after taking a bit of damage. Covering my whole army with Inspiring probably won't be worth the cost. What I intend to take now, will be enough to Inspire just a handful of my more critical elements, in an attempt to let them stick around longer to get their jobs done with more consistency.
· Fast, nimble supporting units. Flank and rear charges are big deals in the game. Surrounding units is a goal for MSU armies, as it is how we tend to tackle and defeat larger or better units. Mounted Scouts and Mounted Sergeants will likely be playing bigger and bigger roles in my KoM lists for harassment and flanking, respectively.
· Long chargers. Getting the charge can be important. Having flyers or cavalry be able to increase your threat range can really put the pressure on an opponent who does not want to get charged, or alternatively lets you make longer supporting charges.
· Something that can take a charge. This can be taken all sorts of ways in KoW. You can go for a defensive brick of a unit, or a 70 point chaff unit to take it and probably die. Since potential overrun is only D6, containing and/or speed bumping enemy units with chaff units seems pretty viable. I'll probably be going that route with my MSU lists.
· Disordering tools. While eliminating enemy wizards in KoW isn't as vital as it was in Warhammer, having a hero on a horse to long charge and Disorder enemy Wizards (removing your opponent’s magic support) or Disorder enemy shooting blocks or can be a great option to have.
· Minimal characters. The sentiment still holds true, though with the unlock mechanic for list building, a few more supporting heroes could see play if I find myself starved for Troop slots.
· Good support via magic or ranged attacks. This can take the form of Bane Chant, Heal, war machines to (hopefully) dish out big damage, or simple missile units to clear chaff and soften up enemy units before they get into melee range.
· A way to deal with Flyers. Flyers seem to be in vogue. Drakons Riders from the Elves, and Elohi from the Basileans seem pretty common inclusions as units, and lots of armies can field powerful characters on flying monsters, so it is something serious armies should be ready to face. I've only theory crafted so far (my meta is pretty small and learning the ropes of the game still), so I haven't developed a tried-and-true toolkit of good counter tactics yet.. though the forum has a good write up of ideas here.
· Good amout of Chaff/Drops. The usual goal of an MSU army is to "out deploy" your opponent. It seems harder in KoW, since all armies seem to have more drops. This is something I will definitely be looking at more in the coming weeks.
So yeah, more blabbering that usual this time, but I enjoyed organizing my thoughts. More to come after I get some more games in! And if you think I missed something on the MSU Checklist, let me know. These are early thoughts, and I'll likely be revisiting and revising this in the future.
Edit: This post was originally titled "Early Thoughts on Multiple Small Units" but was retitled to fit with the MSU Resources page on this blog.
Edit: This post was originally titled "Early Thoughts on Multiple Small Units" but was retitled to fit with the MSU Resources page on this blog.
Greetings fellow MSU practitioner!
ReplyDeleteI have just found your great blog and started reading from the very beginning. I really like that you have a very nice mixture of different type of articles, covering all aspects of the hobby. Reminds me that I should put more effort in updating my own blog on a more regular basis and with more varied content.
Thanks a lot for the inspiration and a friendly reminder! :)
Your article echoes my own sentiment towards MSU in KoW. In fact, I also tried to draw parallels between Warhammer and Kings of War but decided to try and look at the new game without the past experience weighting in too much.
The reason being that I quickly learned it may be more a disadvantage than help. However, seeing the list you made at the end of the post I believe you are spot on, no matter how you arrived to these conclusions.
The only point I am not so sure is absolutely necessary is that you need a unit that can take the charge. It is of course good if you can stop enemy attack at least for a turn. But I am leaning more towards the point of view where it is more important to make sure that your enemy attacks the unit you want and when you want. So that you can take advantage of it.
I have just noticed there is another post on MSU principles in KoW so I better read this one before continuing my rambling. :)
Greetings Swordmaster!
DeleteIt’s an honor to have you scrolling through the blog! I have spent many a happy morning scrolling through your BRs; it’s kind of surreal to see proof of you reading mine. Thanks for posting and for visiting!
I think we’re orbiting the same idea there, though your statement is far more succinct. What I was trying to get at with that item was the methods of reaching your stated goal (getting your opponent to move to where you want them to be).
I felt that typically, achieving that goal would probably involve them charging, and me sacrificing a unit of chaff, or offering up a more survivable anvil-like unit. Spending some time figuring how I wanted to deal with enemy charges seemed like a good thing to consider in list building.
…And I am definitely guilty of holding onto my “Warhammer wits.” I’m still new enough to Kings of War that I keep mentally referencing the old tactics to try and understand the new. That’ll change with time. I just need to get some more games in!
Hello Mr. TastyBagel!
DeleteThe ideas on how to make MSU work in KoW environment and what it really means in this game are still not that clear for me. That is why it is great to read your blog as I can compare the observations and discuss the thoughts further.
I actually think that MSU concept needs to be defined separately for each army in KoW (or at least for groups of them). And while some principles will be the same, there are going to be some significant differences too.
Cheers!
Yeah, MSU for Kings of War is definitely a different beast!
DeleteI think your idea of trying to define MSU according to each army has merit, and is the way to go for now. We need to start from the bottom up with our understanding. After all, we can’t really attempt to discuss the general strategies of MSU in Kings of War meaningfully without having some armies and battles to offer up as examples! I’m really liking the game and am looking forward to exploring it (and MSU) more with this army.
I hope to provide enough battle reports in time to help in clarifying some underlying concepts. But the good thing is I am already thinking about these general ideas that could form some kind of foundation to the MSU in KoW.
ReplyDeleteI believe it is still possible and then we can talk about particulars depending on the army. But indeed, my gut feeling is that the each army will have enough of special approaches to make the general idea significantly different in each case.
I'm late to the party but i've been running a MSU dwarf list with troops of rangers, brocks and flame belchers (and no rocks) to good effect! The only issue is the lack of speed except for the brocks. Still a fun list to play :)
ReplyDelete