Intro and lists
So far in December I have run two demo days for 4th as a new Mantic Pathfinder for Kings of War. I have seen parts of about a dozen different games played, and commanded an army in about a third of those games. Overall, I am liking the new edition, but 600 points is very swingy, and most of the lists I've played and seen have all been done by me, working with the official Mantic armies and models that I have, in order to be compliant with the program. The core tax is definitely a thing now, I am struggling to get out of my own head and see what armies can effectively do. Thankfully, Trevor of Data and Dice and I had a break from the holiday craziness at about the same time, and were able to connect for some smaller-scale, learner games to try and start to grapple with some of the bigger changes the new edition is bringing. Picking up right where we left off, Trevor was running Basileans:
We were set to play a few games at 1,000 points, and Trevor wanted to start off with a mix of options for the Basileans, having Men-at-Arms for some cheap core choices, Paladin Foot Knights as some expensive core, and now with extra attacks and both CS and Def5, and then a big regiment of Ogre Palace Guard, as well as a troop of Elohi for specialist beat-sticks. The Basileans also recently got Cannons, so he's taking one of those as well, along with a cheap Champion War-Priest to lead things.
Also picking off right were we left of was me, as I was running Forces of the Abyss for my first reportable game of 4th Edition. I brought the above, and up to test was (you guessed it) everything!
- Warlock. The Warlock was a great little platform in 3rd Edition, able to cast a variety of spells but absolutely fine run without fineries, as it had a unit strength, Firebolts, and was Inspiring, which all made for a nice supporting piece. We'll see how they do in 4th!
- Flame Bearers. The Flame Bearers got a points decrease, which was nice, but also a nerf, with their Shooting going up to 5+. If they Halt, they can get back down to 4+, but their strength previously was moving and shooting in that medium range. Mobile shooters like this look to have taken quite the hit with the new changes to both shooting and movement.
- Gargoyles. They got a price hike, but I still like them. Disordering isn't a think anymore, so throwing a unit up to block and delay is more viable than ever. We'll see how they do.
- Imps. With the Gargoyles getting costlier, I think the Imps could find a nice in the new edition, as they are still very cheap, and should do well supporting any kind of infantry list.
- Berserkers. They are still strong, and still somewhat competing with the Molochs, but these feel better at Speed 7. They should be good brawlers, and we'll see how they do.
- Abyssal Horsemen. I am really interested to see how cavalry can do this edition. While cavalry generally got nice buffs with extra attacks most Cavalry being TC3, as well as some nice indirect buffs by being able to choose your charge route, I don't know how viable they will be. Hindered charges now strip all TC, and I think they will require much more finesse to use well, and I think they will be a one-of in most lists, with the J Boots essentially mandatory.
Overall, I still don't know how I want to run the Abyssal core tax, but this seemed like a great opportunity to explore the army's shooting options and gain some insights there on two of the neat Specialist units. In the demo games, since shooting can't rout, it all comes down to being able to focus fire and then luck out with a wavered result. If your shooting can stagger a unit or two, you're doing great in these smaller games, but the extra pivot and dynamism in the movement phase means this medium range (~18") shooting seems very hard to use well. We shall see how I do!
Table and Terrain
Trevor was kindly hosting our games, and had set up a quick table with his Kings of War App. Terrain heights and such actually shifted slightly. We did not shift over to using the new heights, though it didn't seem to matter here. After this first trio of games, I'll try to remember to adjust, but for now, we're still working from our old rules, running the buildings as Height 9 blocking terrain, the forests as Height 6 Difficult Terrain, fences as Height 2 Obstacles, and Hills as Height 3, and the ponds and fields as some Height 0 difficult terrain.
At 1,000 points, a full table seemed a bit much. So we set up a full table, and then randomly voided one of the outer thirds, so that we're playing on a 4'x4' space. Here, we voided the left third, and will be playing on the right sections, which for better or for worse has both large buildings.
Wanting to keep things relatively simple while we grappled with the new lists and new rules, we opted for Invade for our scenario, where we will just need to get more unit strength over the center line than our opponent.
My opponent won the roll for sides, and was lazy. He largely castled in the left corner, with Men-at-Arms on the line with the Paladins, the Wizard central and supporting, and the Ogres back more, in reserve. After some discussion, the cannon came down centrally, and Elohi landed on the far right.
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| Table, and deployment. |
It's Invade... I have a lot of 18" shooting, but still feel like I should try going first here, and will kick things off for us.
Top of Round 1: Forces of the Abyss
On the left, the Berserkers move up, with Imps in tow. I want to threaten with them, but do forget that they are only Speed 7 now, and not actually threatening nearly as much as I think, and I should have been a bit more aggressive with them.
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| I don't know what I'm doing, but the scenario is Invade, so we're moving on up. |
The Flame Bearers and Warlock move up, around 7 inches I think. In retrospect, I think I am being too aggressive with them. Yes, it's invade, and my opponent has lots of space to work with with the extra movement pivot. By moving up, I am limiting my options in the coming turns, and minimizing that amount my shooting can do. I have 6 turns, and should have been more patient here.
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| A light contain against the Elohi. |
The Abyssal Cavalry move ahead, and pivot slightly. I'm trying to get on the hill to see, but am forgetting that leader points don't exist, line is drawn from anywhere on the front facing. I could and should have just stuck the corner on the hill to see over it, and not pivoted.
If the angels take the bait, I am not sure, but with the extra attacks and Regeneration, I think I can probably grind them out, and want to try. If not, the plan is to carry on with the Gargoyles to threaten the cannon, and pivot and run with the horsemen towards the center. With any luck, I'll be able to choose my own charge path into something worthwhile!
Top of Round 2: Basileans
On the right, the Elohi sidestep and pivot. The angels are threatening the Horsemen while staying safe themselves. The cannon can see the Horsemen, and will shoot, landing 2 damage, but the Horsemen will hold, resolute.
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| Positioning for the Basileans. |
The Paladins linger behind, while the Men-at-Arms take the hill, with the Ogres supporting.
Top of Round 2: Forces of the Abyss
The Men-at-Arms should be just within range of the Berserkers, but a charge into them seems a little silly in Round 2. I brought a lot of shooting, and want to try and leverage and explore that.
The Imps scamper ahead, and I get both successes with the Burn the Sinners command order, netting 2 damage from the ensuing Fireball. Both Flame Bearer regiments and the Warlock hold to get the boon to their shooting, but the dice trend low, adding only 6 damage. Fireball also has shattering, but I fall just short of wavering the soldiers.
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| The Imps step up! |
I should note that we got a rule wrong here... I didn't confirm it ahead of time, and didn't bother looking it up at the time. We had Fireball hitting on a 5+, but's is a spell and a Magic Missile. A Magic Missile spell hits on a 4+, even if you move, but then additionally gets the normal shooting boons and banes. If you move and throw into a unit with cover, your 4+ goes to 5+, due to the cover. If you Halt and throw into a unit, you could be hitting on a 3+ with no cover. Here, I moved and threw, and should be hitting on 4's not 5's.
On the right, the Elohi didn't take the bait... but my pivot last turn screws me up. I have the inches to get the Horsemen away, but the angle is rough, and I'll clip the forest after about 9 inches, be stopped, and will be exposing my flank to the Elohi, which doesn't seem wise. The Horsemen will move up and out, arranging themselves to keep the Gargoyles in front arc.
The Gargoyles inch ahead while I'm figuring things out, and will stay there.
Top of Round 2: Basileans
I look to be kicking 4th Edition off very professionally, and have apparently dropped a picture. Sorry!
The Elohi do not take the bait, and with a slight pivot, land in a dead zone between the arcs of the Gargoyles and Horsemen, and are safe. With a 20" fly and a small board, they are threatening the flank of the Flame Bearers next turn. Yikes.
The cannon lands 2 damage into a unit of Flame Bearers, but they hold.
The fighting units on the left don't have charges, but will move up to pressure, threatening them next turn and forcing an immediate response from me on my turn, as they are so very close. The War Wizard issues a Command to heal the singed Men-at-Arms, getting one success, and then will also heal them with a spell for another, taking them down to 6 damage at the end of the turn.
Top of Round 3: Forces of the Abyss
Staring down the advancing Basileans, the Abyssals double down, hoping to test out their shooting, but things are a little gummed up. Imps shuffle, and position and we will attempt another Command Order for the Fireball, but the order will fail. The Warlock and Flame Bearers all hold, but the Imps will provide cover for all the Firebolts, and only 4 damage lands. On 10 damage, we again fail to waver the closely packed infantry, and the Flame Bearers fail to regenerate anything.
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| Charges from the Abyssals. |
The Imps shuffling down lets the Berserkers charge the other Men-at-Arms unit cleanly. The Abyssal crazies are apparently eager to prove their worth, turning a ridiculous 13 hits into 11 damage and swiftly besting the humans. In victory, they will back up two inches, which limits incoming charges to just a hindered one from the Ogre Palace Guard.
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| Reforms and overview of the Forces of the Abyss. |
The Gargoyles are in a bad spot, and can't interdict, and I feel the need to protect the shooters, and offer them up to the Paladins.
The Horsemen can't do much either. The nearby Elohi prevent me from running into the gap this turn, and I can't really turn to try and chase down the angels as they are quicker than me. I need to be aggressive with them, so they will get at far ahead as they can, and unfortunately, there was no way to get them into the forest with just their normal move. We still have some good line of sight from the right corner of the unit though, so we might be able to catch the Paladins yet, depending on what they do in victory against those upstart blocking Gargoyles.
Top of Round 3: Basileans
It's time, and everything that can, does charge for the Basileans.
The Elohi take the flank, land 14 damage, and will easily rout the Flame Beaters. The Paladins land a strong 13 damage against the Gargoyles, and will best them as well.
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| Charges from the Basileans! |
The Men-at-Arms get Command Healed for 2, and then catch a Bane Chant in their fight against the Imps, will land 5 damage, and will best the nuisances with decent Nerve checks.
The Ogres make a hindered charge into Berserkers, but don't roll like it. Slightly over the expected damage is done, with 8 landing, as CS2 against Def4 is still very potent! Then the Nerve check is spiked twice to rout the Berserkers as well.
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| Disaster for the Abyssals! |
Top of Round 4: Forces of the Abyss
Statistically, the Berserkers should have held, and I was curious to see what they might have done in response. Alas. The plan was to move the Warlock in front of the Men-at-arms, and slide the Flame Bearers over to protect the flank of the Berserkers for that grind, but this is a lost cause and my back is broken at the end of Round 3.
Still, I want to try one more thing before tossing in the towel. The Horsemen can indeed draw line of sight to the Paladins, and they are in arc. Unfortunately, no matter the path, I can't charge my way in without clipping the woods somehow, so I'm in the flank, but hindered, losing all my Thunderous Charge bonuses. I send the Flame Bearers into the front for fun, while the Warlock charges the injured Men at Arms for fun, who are on 7 damage.
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| "For science!" |
The Warlock fails to damage the soldiers, and should definitely have shot instead, but I felt the need to try this out. The Men-at-Arms obviously stick around. Unfortunately for me, Heals have kept pace with shooting here, and Iron Resolve continues be great against shooting and chip damage.
The Horsemen deal just 8 in the flank, with the Flame Bearers contributing nothing in their frontal assault. The Inspired Paladins hold. The Elohi have line of sight to the Horsemen, and have them in arc for a flank charge, and there is no way I can dig my self out of this, and will concede at the end of my turn to save us some time after getting in this test charge with the Horsemen.
A victory to the opposing Basileans!
Game Conclusions
In smaller games, every move and combat matters, but dice can be even more determinative than the tactics employed. I did not approach this well, and decent dice against me swiftly sealed my defeat once the various melees erupted.
I think the only thing worth dwelling on this game is the turn order. The choice was mine, and I chose to go first and experiment with the new edition. Common wisdom, especially for this scenario, says one should go first, to gain early ground and tempo. However going first is still a huge weakness with Flame Bearers and their 23" effective range. Had my opponent gone first, even moving at the double, I'd get two turns of static shooting before he can charge. Going second puts me a bit behind, given the needs of the scenario, but would actually give my shooting a chance to do stuff to help out. I think with a list like this with mid-range shooting, the better play would be to just plan on going second, playing a bit from behind, and giving your list a chance to do its thing. Going first I was too disjointed.
Testing Conclusions
- Warlock. The Warlocks still looks very useful, as a few versatile, Inspiring Champions seem nice to have in lists, and should be easy to unlock in larger games. However, the ding to their Shooting stat makes just the Firebolts a little less attractive, and I think having some kind of spell would be good to have in the future.
- Flame Bearers. First, more testing is obviously needed, but I have not been impressed so far with the Flame Bearers, either here or in the various demo games. Being able to run and gun and really play around with inches and charge ranges while tossing some chip damage around was kinda their thing in 3rd, given their shorter effective shooting range. As with the Warlock, the ding to their ability to effectively move and shoot really hurts them, and I'm not sure the price decrease is enough to compensate. Hitting on 3's at range doesn't feel like Kings of War, so this seems like this was a conscious balancing decision, and I can understand taking them up to 5's. As a Core Tax, they might be an option, but like in 3rd, I don't think you really want to spam these. They feel weaker in the new edition so far, which is reflective of the price decrease, but more testing is needed, to see just what they can do and what their place might be.
- Gargoyles. They weren't used particularly well, but felt fine for the new Edition, and I think most lists will still want to run a few troops of these. Chaff is still great to have, and flying chaff like this is still very versatile.
- Imps. They did ok, but having invested into shooting, they mostly just got in my own way! We'll try to pair them with Molochs or something fighty next time. I think they could have a nice niche in 4th by chaffing for a melee list and carrying tokens.
- Berserkers. Overall, they were used decently, and definitely feel more balanced than their previous version. I would likely still ultimately lose the grind against Ogres, probably in the second round of fighting, but we got very unlucky, breaking after just one round.
- Abyssal Horsemen. As-predicted, cavalry are a little tricky to use well, and hindered charges really take the wind out of their sails now (as intended). I had some good ideas early on for mobility and pressure with them, but was stumbling my way through ideas and tactics in my first game with them, and these ideas wasn't executed well. The Abyssal Horsemen were used poorly here, and it shows. I think most generals across all armies are going to struggle with effectively using their cavalry, and lists are likely going to stick to one regiment with the J Boots.
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