Year in Review for 2024

It is that time of year again! I've been so busy travelling and so focused on trying to finish up my reporting for the year that I almost missed this annual check-in. Let's get this review going before it is too late! 

Heading into 2024, I had just 4 distinct goals regarding me and Kings of War:

1. Play 24 Games, and write 24 Battle Reports. I have reported on every 3rd Edition game that I have played. I may tweak or abbreviate a report for a demo game, but I'll aim to get 24 more reports posted in 2024.
2. Travel to an event. It still doesn't need to be a big one or even a full-on serious tournament, but traveling for some kind of group get-together sounds like fun.
3. Run or help run an event again. I have four table's worth of mats and terrain, and I'd like to put them to use in 2024! My first meet-up event went well in 2022, so I think we can build on that experience and loop in a few more attendees for something in 2024.
4. Run a Mega Battle. I still want it to be over 5,000 points per side. I have at least 6.5K each of Abyssals, Undead, KoM, Varangur and Herd, so I could even provide all of the minis, but ideally I think we get a group thing going, both for ease and swiftness of play, as well as it being more fun for folks to use their own toys. Having something like multiple Undead collections fighting some allied armies sounds cool, so we'll see what we can figure out.

The first goal was for games and reporting, and I actually had a very strong year. At the end of 2023, I had 46 played, with a goal of reaching 70 games and accompanying reports in 2024. Instead I reached 106 games and reports, more than doubling the goal!

For the second goal, of traveling to an event, I actually traveled to two events. The first was the Interstate Doubles event in June, and second was Dragonfall in September. Both were fun, and I had good showing at both.

For the third goal or running or helping run an event, that one did not pan out. I attended events, but did not help much. I had offered, but my terrain and such was not needed for any of the evens. It's all still around if needed, but I'm not sure how likely I am to be taken up on it unless I am pushing hard for my own event or meetup, like a mega battle. Lacking gaming space at home, I don't know how likely it is for me to be running something, if I am being honest.

For the fourth goal, regarding large battles, I did not play in any mega battles, though I think I have finally planted some seeds, and a few local players are starting to bulk up their collections. I think I am right in that the easiest way to run it is to have folks show up with their personal and different armies... but reflecting on it, the scope of on unified army spread across a huge table is what really grips me, so I think I want that to be a factor in any mega battle going forward.

For the explicit goals, I have two overwhelming successes, and two shortfalls. Overall, not terrible for metrics, and I dare say that had a great year for Kings of War! 

Hobbying-wise, I did not have an explicit goal for 2024, and I am still satisfied with my collections. I added a few thousand points of stuff to my various armies, but only as I wanted to, and it felt good to largely whittle away at the grey legions on my own time or just idly work on units or miniatures that interested me. Again no explicit goal for 2025 - we'll let things develop bit by bit.

Gaming-wise, five armies felt like a little much, and the Varangur have been a bit neglected in 2024, being run just 4 times if my quick reckoning is correct . The big factor here was the escalation league, which saw me run a lot more of the Herd as I was trying to play along with the spirit of the League even if I was not officially part of it. I learned a lot about the Herd, but we'll try to run a closer spread of the armies in 2025.

Going into 2025, we'll aim for more of the same! Kings of War is one of my bigger time sinks for my free time, but discretionary funds will be on a tight leash in 2025, and adulting finding free time is ever-harder as well, so we'll keep the goals modest here.

1. Play 36 Games, and Write 36 Reports. I reported on every game this year. It felt good to track everything, but I also feel like for introductory games, that was a bit too much to juggle. I would rather be focusing on chatting and socializing over note-taking. We had a strong showing this year, but I've tried really hard to get two games in per meetup, and I think this will be achievable without much extra planning and coordinating.
2. Attend two tournaments. Again, keeping it modest. I already have one lined up on January, so we'll be making progress right away. Adepticon is "local" in Milwaukee now, but funds are going to be tight and I don't know if that will be in the cards given the hotel prices. We'll see what else pops up throughout the year. I don't want to be a serious and competitive player and worrying about podium placements and such, but I will admit that both these smaller tournaments were a lot of fun, so we'll hopefully try a few more!
3. Run a mega battle. I want it to be at least 5k a side, at least 2 players a side, and one side needs to be running the same army, even if it is spread out over a few collections. We'll see what can be arranged in the new year!

May the New Year find you nice and comfy.

So long 2024! We'll see what's in store for Kings of War and me in 2025!

Kings of War 3rd Edition: #106 Undead vs Northern Alliance in Protect and Raze

Intro and Lists

It's a packed holiday season, but schedules aligned briefly one rainy and foggy evening for a quick game against Trevor of Data and Dice. He was graciously hosting us, and brought out his Northern Alliance for our game:

Trevor's Northern Alliance have been frequent opponents for me throughout 3rd Edition, and it's been neat to see the lists develop alongside our tastes and skills. Here, we have the Dwarf Warriors and Naiads to hold the line, as has been the standard recently. The Snow Troll Hordes have been replaced with the more smashy Hearthguard units. A Frostclaw horde returns to harass, and some Snow Foxes are around to interdict. A Cavern Dweller returns to smash things, and the very effective Snow Troll Prime returns as a triple take. The oddities he is playing around with these days is the flying Ice Blade, and Healing Ice Queen. As-ever, it is a sturdy list, with some extra killiness now, thanks to the potent Hearthguard.

I bounced back over to the Undead to continue exploring some things. Up to test are:

• Skeleton Warriors with Two Handers. Trevor's Penitents Inspired these, so I have enjoyed running them against him and getting feedback. We'll see how they hold up this game.
• Wraiths. We tried regiments last time, but I think cheaper troops are probably a better default size. The Def6 should help them hold things up a little longer, particularly in a chaff fight, and I think Strider and Shambling are very beneficial, and should get moreimpactful the more experience I get with the unit.
• Soul Reavers x1. I still need hammers, and want to try a 1:2 split between the Soul Reavers and flying Wights. The Reavers are cheaper, even with an item, and hit just a little harder with the extra attacks. 
• Wights x2. They other part of the hammer assortment. Flying is nice, but they lack Nimble. Shambling can either be a benefit or a drag depending on the rest of your list and how many Surge sources you run. I think a split is probably better than all in on Wights or Soul Reavers, but how (and if) you split is dependent on the rest of your list. We'll see how this arrangement feels.
• Liche King with Heal. We tried Drain Life and goofed it before, using the Order instead of the better spell I paid for! Having the situational Order around means that I don't think I want the situational spell, so we'll take the easier Heal, and Surge for the Wights.
• Undead ASBs. I still like these as they are one of the few sources of Very Inspiring for the ranks of the Undead, and they play very nicely with Wyrms and Skeletons. The Heal ASB has been great. Having a Surge caster seemed like it would be good too, but I haven't really gotten as much use out of the item as I would have thought.
• Zuinok. He's not popular, but I want to like the outcast lizard. His Nerve is ok, Fearless is good, and the array of spells is interesting for a supporting spellcaster. I haven't quite gotten him to work though, so we'll try him again and keep at it.
• Burrowing Wyrms. I like how they look, and I like them on the table, especially with the ASB interactions going on. We're taking these for sure, and we'll see what other uses and insight I can glean for them!
• Command Orders. The Undead have some neat Command Orders, and I want to make use of them, so I'm buying a few extra Dice. We'll see how that all shakes out this game.

Table and Terrain

Trevor was kind enough to host us, and we were using his table and terrain. We were using our typical terrain rules, running the building and bones as Height 9 blocking terrain, the forests as Height 6 Difficult Terrain, stone fences as Height 2 Obstacles, and Hills as Height 3, and the ponds and field as Height 0. 

Neither of us had strong feelings about the scenario, and ended up with Protect and Raze, to try out one of the newer offerings. There is a central objective token, and then we each place 3 more objective tokens on the opponent’s side of the board, 6” from the center line. If we control one of the tokens that we placed, we can burn them for a point, and then that token goes away, so we should be whittling down the points of interest on the battlefield down to a final clash in the center. The new twist here is that we can control but not burn the tokens our opponent placed, and we can score them if we happen to hold them at the end of the game, providing for a little more interplay.

I deployed second, and placed my tokens heading outward, so I could play for either side. I eventually decided to mirror my opponent and double-up on the left, hoping for a bloody fight that might favor the Lifeleeching Undead. I won the roll for sides, and was lazy.

Overview of the table. My third white token is in the forest on the right.

Left-to-right, the Northern Alliance have undercover Heatrhguard with Foxes in tow, the Cavern Dweller and Prime leaning on the obstacle, Dwarf Clansmen, Naiads, and more Warriors with another Prime and Ice Queen supporting, then the other Hearthguard with more Foxes, the Hexing Prime, and then the Frostclaws and last unit of foxes out on the far right.

View from the left.

Deploying a new list each time can be difficult. My only goal way to spread out the regiments of Skeleton Warriors so they weren't shoulder-to-shoulder. Left-to right for the Undead are Skeletons, Soul Reavers, Skeletons with the Surging ASB, both Revenant Wyrms, Wraiths screening for Wights, then more Skeleotns with Zuinok, Wights, Skeletons with the Liche, Wights with the Healing ASB, and then Skeletons isolated on the other side of the building. 

View of the center.

Overall, I am ok with my,deployment. The isolated Skeletons are still inspired by the Very Inspiring ASB, so it's not as bad as it might look. I could probably consider splitting the Wyrms up, any maybe using the Wraiths to block for the other unit of Wights, but overall, I felt like this was a decent deployment for me. While I am not really opposing the Frostclaws, between them and their Snow Fox escort, I was not going to be getting a good charge or anything against them, so it seemed best to ignore and push hard elsewhere in the early turns.

I ended up winning the roll for turn order, and happily chose to go first.

Top of Round 1: Undead

I roll up 6 Swords on the Command Dice. 

On the left, the Skeletons Shamble forth. One guards the gap between the hill and table edge, while the other is able to get its leader point onto the hill.

Moving on up.

The Soul Reavers move up, are blocked by the hill, so keep going. I can get a majority of their base onto the hill without threat of being charged, so do so. A little Thunderous Charge never hurt to have!

The Burrowing Wyrms start in the terrain, so should be slowed. They don't go crazy aggressive on their move forward, but they do look to have gone a little too far. Sorry! I was excited to go first.

The Wraiths make good use of the Order and the building.

Centrally, the Wraiths shamble up, with the stronger Wights behind. The line of Skeletons and Wights moved ahead, but did not keep a neat line.

I spend 4 Command Dice on "By The Master's Will" to remove Shambling from the Wraiths on the right, and march them up and Nimbly pivot to threaten a few more things next turn.

The ASB with Heal hops up behind the Wraiths, and has the inches to be Very Inspiring to the Skeletons out on the right, who move up and try to threaten the token my opponent placed. They'll just slow down whatever they can.

A suitable disheveled battle line, pressing forward.

Zuinok tries surging the unit in front of him up, getting 1/8 successes. The Liche does the same, getting 5/6, but the Skeletons are stopped by the Wraiths. Normally I don't like these blind forward Surges, but with nothing even close to being able to charge, Surging forward for a few extra inches seems worth it.

Bottom of Round 1: Northern Alliance

My opponent rolls up 5 Swords for his Command Dice.

On the right, the Snow hop up to screen. The Foxes should be just over 12 inches away, denying me a charge into them. The towering Frostclaws pull up behind the Foxes, and land 7 damage into the Skeletons from afar, but they are Inspired and hold. Fearless 15 is hard to spook.

The distracting Skeletons hold for now.

The Ice Blade doesn't want to charge a unit. He wants to assassinate individuals, and flies ahead a bit, hiding behind the central building.

The woods slows the Northern Alliance, but their sturdy line marches up in the center, with Foxes screening for the expensive Hearthguard.

The Northern Alliance keeps it orderly as they move up, denying any flank charges from the Wraiths.

On the left, the Dwarf Clansmen move up, preventing multi-charges into the Cavern Dweller. The Snow Foxes move up to screen for the other unit of undercover Hearthguard.

Hex is attempted and fails, and I think just the Frostclaws got a reroll with the Command Dice. I think some Swords go to waste this turn. 

Top of Round 2: Undead

I roll up 5 Swords for my Command Dice. 

It takes a while and some extra bases, but I eventually figure out all my charges. A lot moves out this turn!

On the left, the Skeleton Warriors are just in front arc of the Foxes, and charge in to fight them. The Foxes are back enough that the Hearthguard should have some complicated movement next turn if I don't pick them up. The Skeletons land 3 and the Foxes are wavered.

Lots and lots of charges from the surprisingly speedy Undead.

From experience on both sides of the table, I know one normally gets just one shot at removing a Cavern Dweller. The Soul Reavers are on the hill and will be wounding on 2's... this is that shot, and I go a-charging down the hill. They land 12 damage (essentially as-expected), but the check doesn't go my way, and the monster is just wavered.

Still, the Dweller doesn't have Fury, and with the wavered Foxes where they are, the Hearthguard are hopefully going to be stuck for a turn.

Several wavers and one victory for the Undead.

The pair of Burrowing Wyms hit the Dwarf Clansmen, take them to 11 damage, and will get the rout. The left one backs up and and the other one sidesteps.

More charges from the Undead.

Even hindered, I don't want the Naiads charging anything. I don't have the success to block them, so the Wraiths need to charge them. A flying unit charging into terrain, Phalanx and Ensnare isn't pretty, but they do do 1 damage, and will be in the way.

The Skeletons look to line up a Surge charge. They'll pivot just a little more to do so.

We're looking to occupy the Hearthguard units for a turn. Nearby, Wights so into the Dwarf Clansmen, dealing 9 damage, and will waver but not break them. The Skeletons and Wraiths go into the Snow Foxes, will best them, and will both overrun.

Another waver, another small victory, and some overruns.

With no normal charges this turn, the Skeletons don't have great options, and I go for a risky play with them. They move and pivot, to face the flying Ice Blade. I use 4 Swords on Drain Life from them into the individual, landing 2, and taking them from 7 down to 5. The Healing ASB brings them down to 3, and then the Lich tries Surging them in, needing 4 successes on 6 dice and.... I get it! 

The Skeletons best the Ice Blade, and reform.

The flying hero is weak if you can catch him, so I'm wounding on 2's, and apparently these Skeletons brought their A game, because they do 7 damage to take the Ice Blade to 9 and best him. This was a weird Rube Goldberg-like series of moves. It shouldn't have happened, but I lucked out. The Skeletons reform, daring the Birds to make a hindered charge.

Bottom of Round 2: Northern Alliance

The Northern Alliance rolls up 7 Swords for their Command Dice, and try to put them to good use.

On the right, the Foxes run up and will burn their token. Kicking off the scenario play and making it 1:0 in favor of the Northern Alliance.

The speedy elements of the Northern Alliance get stuff done.

The plucky Skeletons needed to give a flank to something, and gave it to the Prime, who charges in alongside the hindered Frostclaws. The Skeletons started at 3 damage, end at 15, and do fall, but did a heckuva job. Both the Prime and the faller Frostclaws will pivot to stare down the flanks of the Undead.

The Northern Alliance push back.

The Skeletons are in front, but the Hearthguard can pivot towards the Skeletons and hit the Wraiths first for a tricky charge. They do so, but roll a little low, landing just 5 damage. With the Overrun they were not Inspired, so I luck out.

Reforms for the victorious Frostclaws and Prime.

The Clansmen shake it off and counter-charge the Wights, but also roll low, landing just 1 damage, and then the Wights are found to be Insane. It doesn't matter, and this still does ground the flying unit. The Ice Queen heals the Dwarfs for 3.

The Naiads counter-charge the Wraiths, but also roll low, and also land just 1 damage. Expected damage is 2-3 in each of these fights, so it's not massive failures, but still concerning at how little damage is actually landing.

Charges on the left.

On the very important left, my opponent spends 5 Swords to remove Wavering from the Foxes so they can sidestep out of the way. The wavering Cavern Dweller disengages and withdraws in case things go poorly, and the Hearthguard and Prime charge the Soul Reavers, taking them to 11 and routing them. Everything holds, trying to protect the cavern Dweller.

Top of Round 3: Undead

I roll up 5 Swords for my Command Dice.

The Cavern Dweller is still sitting at 12 Damage, so I feel like I must try and pick him up. 

Some Skeletons make a flank-charge into the formerly wavering Foxes, Wights will charge the Snow Troll Prime, and more Skeletons are brought forth, pivoting at the end to get line of sight into the Cavern Dweller for another Drain Life attempt.

Charges for the Undead.

It's 4's and 4's, but nothing lands with Drain Life, and the Cavern Dweller skips the Nerve Check and a second try at besting it.

The flanking Skeletons pick up the Foxes though, and surprisingly, the Wights land 7 and pop the Prime, getting a pair of definitive 11's on the check. With the Cavern Dweller free, they turn to face, and hopefully flanking Skeletons can help something next turn.

With the Naiad horde gone though, I will eventually burn the token here and tie things up for the scenario.

Another flurry of charges in the midfield from the Undead.

Centrally, the Wraiths counter-charge back into the Naiads. They are still a flier and against Phalanx and Ensnare, so they don't do much, but both Wyrms pounce on the horde as well, with one in the flank. The flanking Wyrm goes bananas, landing 15 damage on it's own (10 expected), and the horde is picked up. The Wraiths overrun, the flanking Wyrm sidesteps towards my opponent's deployment zone, and the other Wyrm backs up. In retrospect, I should have overrun, or just held, and tried to box the Prime in.

Reforms for the Undead.

The Skeletons have flank charges into either the Dwarf Warriors or the Hearthguard. I choose the Dwarfs just to make sure they get bested. The Wights devastate the unit on their own though, and both reform. 

The Wraiths go into the the Hearthguard again, landing 3, with both the Liche and the Healing ASB trying to help. The ASB hits for 1, the Liche for 2, and their own Lifeleech will eventually bring them down to 1.

The Skeleton Warriors get Surged into a cheeky position.

To try and block up the Prime and Frostclaws for a turn, one unit of Skeletons moves up, and Zuinok surges them forward 5 inches, greatly complicating any charges for the fliers.

Bottom of Round 3: Northern Alliance

My opponent rolls up 5 Swords for his Command Dice.

The Snow Foxes swing around the building, threatening my characters. The Prime Charges the Skeletons, and the Hearthguard and Frostclaws go into the Wraiths, with the fliers in the flank and being a millimeter out of the forest for a clear charge.

Movement and charges from the Northern Alliance.

The Prime lands 4 damage into the Skeletons who hold, and the Hearthguard and Frostclaws will devastate and then pick up the Wraiths, though it is close thanks for Def6. Both will reform to look across the battlefield and continue this push.

Reforms for the Northern Alliance.

There is no real center left for the Northern Alliance, but the Prime can just spy the back corner of the Wights for a Nimble rear charge. The Cavern Dweller maxes his attacks but only lands 7, and the hindered Prime contributes 5 to take them to 12, and the -/17 Wights are bested. The Cavern Dweller Lifeleeches 3 back, getting down to 9 damage.

Charges on the left.

The Hearthguard crack through the wimpy Skeletons, dealing 14 damage and then reform.

Reforms on the left.

It was a strong opening for the Undead, but the Northern Alliance hammers are coming online and striking back!

Top of Round 4: Undead

I roll up 6 Swords for my Command Dice.

A third attempt at the Cavern Dweller, because it is injured.

On the left, the Cavern Dweller is the most damaged, so that's what I need to try and focus on. The ASB gets safe, while the Skeleton Warriors charge the monster. I spend 4 Swords on Drain Life from the ASB, landing 2 damage to take it to 11, but no check is done since the monster is on a melee combat. The Skeletons then miss all their attacks, and the Dweller takes no check again.

Wraiths pivot and move, and Zuinok will surge them into the flank of the escapee Snow Troll Prime. They'll deal 5 damage, and the Prime will survive, unbothered.

Trying to block out any charges to get behind my lines, a Burrowing Wyrm will face the Frostclaws.

The Undead try to blunt the push of the Northern Alliance, but are coming up short.

The other Wyrm can see the Ice Queen and he'll charge. The goal is to best her, and then overrun into the Hearthguard combat. 

The Wyrm does ok, landing 5 or so damage, and gets the rout on the spellcaster. I need a 3" overrun, but get just 2. The Skeletons swing at the Hearthguard, but land no damage.

The Liche pulls in behind the building to try and Inspire things, healing the Skeletons that were fighting the Prime. They disengage, withdraw, and back up, and get healed from 4 down to 1 damage. The back up lets the Wights get into a combat against the Prime. They'll land 5 and not budge him.

The Healing ASB makes a desperate charge into the Snow Foxes. Since they are just Def2, I try a reroll to hit, get it on the first try, and then fail to damage them. 

Bottom of Round 4: Northern Alliance

My opponent rolls up 4 Swords for his Command Dice. 

The Frostclaws can see the Burrowing Wyrm that failed to overrun, will charge him, bring him to 10 damage, and get the rout. Since I wanted the Liche to cast, and there wasn't an easy way over there given the combats, the Wyrm was unfortunately uninspired. The Frostclaws will reform to threaten the last of my units out here.

The Northern Alliance pick up more units.

The Hearthguard thump the Skeletons, landing just 11 damage but will get the rout, and then back up, setting up a nice trap with the Frostclaws. Whatever I charge, I'll need to best or be flanked.

The Wights Prime goes back into the Wights, landing 2 damage, but they hold. 

On the left, my opponent makes big plays for the scenario. Since the ASB failed, the Foxes have a free paw, and they have the nimble inches to grab and burn a token.

The last two tokens are claimed and burned...

Since the Wraiths didn't get lucky with their flank charge, the Prime disengages, moves forward towards my deployment zone, and then Nimble pivots to get onto the remaining token and burn it, making this 3:1 in favor of the Northern Alliance.

...and then the hammers come crashing in.

With the Prime departing, the Cavern Dweller can get into the Wraiths, rolling up max hits again but flubbing the damage roll a bit. The Dweller takes them to 6, but they hold. Unfortunately, the Dweller is now down to 8 damage.

The Hearthguard thump and best the Skeletons way out here on the left, and then reform, looking to help pickup the Wraiths.

Top of Round 5: Undead

I roll up 5 Swords for my Command Dice. I think the game is lost, but we'll see what can be done.

On the left, the Wraiths go in against the Dweller. The ASB steps closer to keep them Inspired. My notes say they did no damage, if so, they should be on 6. Not sure how they went from 6 to 5 unless they did score one.

Lining up some magic while the last desperate charges are made.

Still experimenting, Zuinok sets up to Inspire the Wraiths, and be within 12 inches of both the Foxes and the Skeletons, and he goes for Fireball against the Stealthy Foxes. I land 2 damage, heal the Skeletons with Necrofire, and get them from 1 down to 0. A hot check routs the uninspired Foxes.

The Liche had moved to cast Mindfog into the Foxes... but in the Ranged Phase I realize that Fireball already has Shattering. Having already moved, he goes to try and stun the Snow Troll Prime on the hill, but doesn't shake them.

We pick up the Foxes, and somehow, the Wraiths heal.

The Revenant Wyrm goes into the Frostclaws. They have lower Nerve than the Hearthguard, but the Hearthguard were damaged, healed and are on 2. What should be charged is debatable. The Wyrm lands 5 and gets a Waver.

The Skeletons are stuck, but technically holding the center. The Wights charge the Prime again, does another 5 to bring them to 8, and I get a Waver here. Between Lifeleech and the Healing ASB, Wights are brought down to 0 damage.

Bottom of Round 5: Northern Alliance

My opponent rolls up 3 Command Dice, spending them on rerolls, I think.

The Hearthguard and Cavern Dweller does into the delaying Wraiths and picks them up, with the Hearthguard overrunning and the Dweller changing facing to get s straight shot towards the center.

The Northern Alliance trudge towards the center.

The Frostclaws and other Hearthguard trip their trap, hitting the Wyrm in the flank and front and taking it to 19. 

The wavering Prime regenerates 2 to go down to 6 damage.

The other Prime, out on the hill on the left was definitely facing my deployment zone. He is Nimble, but that looks like a big move. He will also Regenerate 2 and end at 3 damage.

Top of Round 6: Undead

I roll up 5 Command Dice. 

The Liche does into the speedy Prime. If I can trip him up, this should prevent both the Prime and the Cavern Dweller from reaching the middle token. I spend a Sword to reroll the hit, and we do disorder him!

I forget that the undercover Hearthguard are there, and Zuinok tries another Fireball into the Frostclaws, landing 3 to take them to 8 damage. I believe I get lucky and waver them again.

Zuinok gets way to close to the Frostclaws.

The Wights could fly away to grab a token, but that's not going to win me the game, even if we go to a Round 7. So I opt to just fight for fun. The Healing ASB casts Drain Life into the Prime for more damage getting 1, and the Wights hit the Prime, dealing 8 to take him to 15 and see him off and then overrun.

The Skeletons are still gummed up and I opt to just hold them. I figured the Wights were going to lose, and the plan was to charge them up and hopefully box out the Northern Alliance units on my turn.

Bottom of Round 6: Northern Alliance

The undercover Hearthguard crush Zuinok, and the Prime plus the Cavern Dweller pick up the Liche.

The Northern Alliance pick up some characters, and the push towards the center stalls out.

The Hearthguard crash into the Wights, landing 8, but the phantasms hold. 

The Northern Alliance have secured all their tokens for 3, and aren't holding any of mine for additional Points. The Undead have burned 1, and control the center, making this a 3:2 victory to the Northern Alliance!

Game Conclusions

I think my reforms for the Wyrms in Round 3 cost me the flank (and thus the game). Had I boxed the Snow Troll Prime in properly, I think I stand a better chance of grinding like a more normal Undead player and securing the win thrrough attrition of units. Letting the Prime slip away for a rear charge was a pivotal turning point for the game.

The Undead started off very strong, but I wasn't able to remove any of the hammer units opposing me. Kings of War is driven by the scenario, and Trevor was able to focus on that and cleverly claw his way back to a victory, so very well played to him!

Testing Conclusions

• Skeleton Warriors with Two Handers. They are cheaper than the instigating troops that I have been using, so it is a bit of a weird dynamic, I think they are working out alright! I am still struggling to get the most use out of them, but am getting better. 
• Wraith Troops. These were nice, and surprisingly sticky, even enduring a counter charge from the Hearthguard.
• Soul Reavers x1. They had their shot but couldn't quite seal the deal against the Cavern Dweller. I think that was a risk worth taking, but it just didn't pan out.
• Wights x2. Trevor is more experienced playing with and against fliers, so they didn't have as good a showing as their last outing. Still they did fine.
• Liche King with Heal. He also did fine. The Heal rolls were a bit low statistically, but things were topped off nicely throughout the game. Surge is nice, but depending on the list, might not be mandatory.q
• Undead ASBs. Still great if you are running Skeletons of any kind! I have not really used Surge in the recent games though, so might explore other items. The Soul Reavers and Wights top out at CS2, so 
• Zuinok. I still want to like him. The spells are decent for the army, but he is a little too quirky to be useful. I keep forgetting about the reroll with Fireball though, and have never had great targets for the spell. While I did finally get the Fireball + heal interaction working... it is just Heal 1, and not that impactful. I still want to like him, but think I need to look at something else.
• Burrowing Wyrms. I've been trying to run them to clear out units hiding in terrain, and they did good in that regard, charging in Round 2 and nearly making their points back by Round 3. Good results as usual from them, though not utilized to their utmost. Giving the Prime a way out, and with a rear charge caused that flank to fall apart. They are not Nimble, so need to consider my reforms more carefully.
• Command Orders. I still like the Command Orders for the Undead. I got into a good position with the Wraiths, and while Drain Life wasn't effective this game, that was more the dice being troublesome. Buying two reds, I had access to most of my orders most of the time. If one is shooting for multiple big orders, I can see bigger Dice being bought, but shooting for 4-6 Swords a turn, I think two reds seems just fine.

It is always a pleasure to play against Trevor, and as-ever, it was a very insightful and enjoyable game and a pleasure to close out 2024 with. Happy Holidays, and I am glad we could fit this in! 

Kings of War 3rd Edition: #105 Herd vs Undead in Salt the Earth

Intro and Lists

We were still out at Grant's place for a holiday meetup full of chili and wargames. After some seconds on the chili and sides, some of us had time for a second game, and I was able to throw down with with Jeff, an Illinois player that has been around for while. He brought the Undead:

The theme was "what's painted" and I gotta say it was a nice looking army for such a self-deprecating a. Reaper's Harrowgate Graveyard and other gravestones formed the basis for the multibasing, apparently this all locks into a display board with a full graveyard, which sounds very cool! His printer unfortunately gave up the ghost and I don't have an exact version of the list, and am 40 points shy, which is gonna some spells or items, likely on the Vampires.

Look at how neat that kitbashed Goreblight is!

It was an interesting, classic gothic list just missing some rattling skeletons! Zombies, Zombie Trolls and Wights all play around with the Vicious Aura from the Necromancer and I was excited to see that in action here. He had two units of Deathpack which I want to hobby up and try out sometime, but was running them as hordes, which was peculiar to me. However, they and the Werewolves do interact with the D3 Slayer aura on the Lykanis, more interesting units. Soul Reavers are strong, and the foot Vampire lord intrigued me, as I don't know what to make of Blood Rage. The normie Vampire Lord comes with Duelist, so maybe there is something there. We'll keep an eye on her and see how she does in case there is something I can learn here.

I had the Herd again, with a different semi-balanced list to try some other things out, including Forest Shamblers and some Command Dice. Up to test was:

• Tribal Spears, Chalice. I like the utility of Tribal Spear Hordes. They can carry items well, but with triple Guardian Brutes around for the time being, they get Fury to hopefully stick around just that little longer.
• Tribal Trappers. These have been nice positional pieces, pressuring and zoning out space with a little shooting as well as little Thunderous Charges. They do well when supporting units with similar speed since they can Scout ahead, so I am hoping they can do well here.
• Hunters of the Wild Troops. Scouting has been a lot of fun with the Herd, so I want to try these out as scouting blockers for the Wiltfather. 
• Guardian Brutes x3. Three hordes still, as I needed to start somewhere. It's a lot of attacks, but with just Def4, they can be surprisingly fragile, so I'll need to protect them.
• Forest Shamblers. I've run these before, but I wanted to return to them again due to the Wiltfather and Command Orders. The Wiltfather's Aura gives them Vicious, and being just Def5, they are the tankiest thing that can use the Regeneration Order the Herd gets, so I want to play around with some aggressive moves.
• Centaur Bray Striders. They tend to do alright but not amazing due to the low number of attacks. Taking two to try and block for the Guardian Brutes and start piece trades. 
• Great Chieftain and the Sacred Horn of the Great Migration. We debuted him last game, and since it's a double-header today, we'll try him again here. The takeaway last game was he was neat, but does poorly closely supporting the Guardian Brutes as they have Brutal and don't interact well with his aura of Dread. We'll try running him with the Spears or something.
• Druid with Bane Chant. A typical pick for me. A cheap, spammable source of Inspiring and Bane Chant has helped this style of Herd list out a lot, and I think taking one is usually a good call as I continue to try and figure out what other sources I like. 
• Forest Warden. Everyone around these parts seems to like Large Infantry and Monstrous Infantry-sized units that can Inspire and score for scenarios. I have liked these alongside the Greater Earth Elementals, but think I do need to be running something with Shambling to get the most use out of them. We'll see if him and the Forest Shamblers are a good-enough combo to explore further.
• Wiltfather. I liked the idea of double Tree Herder, but that has been too expensive. With a "balanced" approach going on, we're taking just one. Since I am not playing around with any other sources of Healing, we'll upgrade him to the Wiltfather again.
• 3x Red Command Dice. I tried the first game of the day without any extra dice, but that's a bit rough. The Herd don't get great orders, but with four hordes, Regeneration is what I'll be shooting for, along with all the little rerolls and such.

Table and Terrain

We were in the living room this time, on another big textured foam wargaming table. We were using our typical terrain rules, running the buildings as Height 9 blocking terrain, the two forests (both on my side) as Height 6 Difficult Terrain, fences as Height 2 Obstacles, Hills as Height 3, and the weird wall  bit in the center as impassable terrain. This was how we found the table, and we decided to leave it and see how the building in the deployment zone changed things.

He rolled some dice for a scenario, and we got Salt the Earth. There is an Objective token in the center, and we each spread 3 tokens around the board. If we control a token, we can destroy it, so we can focus our attention elsewhere.

Table, terrain, deployment, and tokens, with the squared one being the central token.

He won the roll for first token placement. I don't remember exectly who placed where, but I tried to place tokens more centrally, in scout-able locations, and my plan was to burn them as I went, and to try some extreme scouting and aggression. Most of the tokens ended up in the middle, and then I won the roll for sides, being lazy, though I also ended up on the side without the building.

The drops were pretty close, so there wasn't any big surprises for deployment from either of us. The Undead deployed in three groups, playing around with the various synergies. On the left were both Deathpack hordes, along with with the Lykanis and the Werewolves and the Healing Necromancer. The center had both Soul Reaver units, and the Vampire Lord, and the building was near enough to the edge that it did not mess with deployment. The right had two zombie Hordes up front, two Goreblights right behind, the Zombie Troll Horde central, and the Inspiring Nercromancer and Aura out around here as well.

While the Undead stacked up, I spread out. Left-to-right we have a troop of Hunters ready to yolo out to the far objective on the hill, a Tree Herder, Warden and Forest Shamblers to all play around with the Vicious Aura for Verdant units. On the hill we have Centaurs, a horde of Guardian Brutes and the Druid. We then have more Centaurs to interdict in the middle, the Tribal Spears and some Trappers ready to scout up. Since these units don't have Brutal, I put the Chieftain here to try and make better use of his auras this game. On the right we have the other Hunters of the Wild ready to hop up into the forces, Trappers ready to hop up as well, and two Guardian Brute hordes ready to try and mulch some Zombies.

There are some shortcomings with my deployment. The right is uninspired, and could have positioned the Trappers better, such as both ready to hop up and claim the woods on the right. 

Scout moves on the left.

I did remember my Scout moves. There is a bit of a gouge in the center of the board. The Hunters moved up their 10 inches, the Tree Herder a little less. Ideally we throw the Hunters ahead to block for the Herder and get him to where he needs to go. The Warden did not scout up, as I wanted him to sit back and burn this Objective in Round 1. The Shamblers moved up 9 inches or so. I think the Werewolves are just out of range since they started so far back. 

The Trappers scout up to each land on a token, ready to burn it, or scooch up and let other units handle that in the early turn. The Hunters scouted up enough to keep their leader point in the woods, so they could see out of it. 

My opponent won the roll for turn order, and opted to go first, and try and get out of his deployment zone.

Top of Round 1: Undead

My opponent bought no extra dice, but rolled up a strong 6 Swords to kick things off. Unfortunately, these all go to waste. 

The Undead shamble up, but my Scouting units are safe.

On the right, the Zombie blob all moves up, and nothing is Surged around, as he wants to keep it nice and even and prevent any early and unexpected big multi- or flank-charges.

The beastly contingent of the Undead move up as well.

The Vampires inch up, getting ahead of the obstacle, and want to commit to the left side of the board, angling to get past the impassable wall next turn.

The beast bloc moves up reservedly. The Forest Shamblers should have a charge, but nothing else.

As-mention, no Orders are issued this turn. There is no shooting or spells for rerolls, nothing is damaged, and not much to do since he is trying to make orderly progress.

Bottom of Round 1: Herd

I roll up something for the Command Dice. I think it's 3 Swords, with the rerolls going onto the Tribal Trappers and one going to waste.

On the left, the Hunters of the wild move up and pivot, as does the Wiltfather. I probably pivoted the Wiltfather too much. The Hunters of the Wild can probably hold if one thing charges them, but not two, and I could be planning for that. 

The Herd pressure from multiple angles.

The Forest Shamblers have a charge, but that seems silly to go in alone. They actually back up, so the Warden can move up slightly, still touch the token, and Hex the healing Necromancer. I guess nothing is actually damaged, but whatever. This felt good. The Warden burns the token at the end of the Round.

The Herd make use of the impassable wall.

I want to try and keep the hill if I can. The Centaurs inch up but stay on it, as do the Guardian Brutes. 

I also try to make use of the impassable wall. The other Centaurs canter forward to zone out the advance of the Vampires, and Trappers run up to try and dictate where the Zombie fights will start. With a penalty, they'll shoot into the Zombies on the hill, with the other troop on the far-fight holding and doing the same, and I think 1 damage is done? It's Def2, but the hits are not impressive, since half the shots need 6's.

The Herd ready themselves for Zombie charges.

On the right, the Tribal Spears move up to secure an Objective and destroy it. The Hunters of the Wild move up to again dictate there the Zombie hordes will go, and some Brutes make it into the Woods. 

On the far-right, these Trappers hold, destroying the token, and more Brutes march up behind them.

Top of Round 2: Undead

My opponent rolls up... something for his Command Dice, I think getting a low result, and playing it similarly with some combination of Endurance and rerolls.

On the right, the Zombie hordes go in, hindered. They will land nothing on the Hunters, and just 1 on the Trappers, with some really unfortunate rolling.

The Zombies crash into the woods.

The Zombie Trolls and both Goreblights advance, looking to help continue the push in the coming turns, with one of the monstrosities looming on the hill. 

The Soul Reavers set a trap.

Centrally, one Vampire regiment takes the center objective, securing it. They're giving up a flank to the Centaurs, but the other Soul Reavers are safe, utilizing the obstacle to prevent any charges into them, and waiting to fight and bail out their brethren.

The Werewolves tear into the trees.

On the left, some Deathpack charge the Hunter troop, but their boney paws can only land 1 damage. 

The Lykanis and Werewolves charge the Forest Shamblers. The Lykanis howls, but only 10 damage is done, and the bark shudders but holds, and the undead fail to punch through.

Bottom of Round 2: Herd

I roll up 6 Swords for my Command Dice,  and since everything held, it should be a big turn for the Herd.

On the left, the Hunters countercharge the Deathpack, with the Forest Warden coming in from the flank, and rolling out of his mind, landing all 6 possible damage, with the Hunters getting a Strength reroll, and contributing 6 as well. The Deathpack are bested, with the Warden changing facing towards the center, and the Hunters pressing onward with an overrun.

The Shamblers get a Regeneration roll from Unshakable Will, going from 10 down to 7. 

Big avenging charges from the Herd.

I trip myself up. I counter-charge the Shamblers into the Lynanis to lock him up, and will hit them with a Bane Chant. I want to charge the Centaurs down the hill into the Werewolves. I originally sent the Wiltfather into the flank of the Werewolves, but they don't regenerate, so I change my mind, and hit the Lykanis instead to pick up the source of Inspiring. I think optimally, the Wiltfather hits the flank of the Lykanis, the Shamblers and Centaurs hit the Werewolves. Oh well.

The Wiltfather rolls very good, and while not devastated, the Lykanis will need insane courage to stick around before we even get to the attacks of the Shamblers. He does not stick around. The Shamblers back up to allow the Wiltfather to change facing.

Reforms for the Herd.

The Centaur Strider Troop is coming off the hill, but only had 2 attacks, and only 3 damage makes it through. They're tied up though, and this is fine for a chaff unit.

Charges in the center.

Centrally, the Centaurs hit the flank of the Soul Reavers, landing 5 damage, with Brutes coming off the hill into the front and landing 12, and the first regiment of vampires is trampled. For reforms, the Centaurs change facing to get the attention of the remaining Soul Reavers.

Charges on the right.

The right is also bloody, but congested. The Trappers counter-charge dealing a strong 6 with the Tribal Spears joining in and landing 12 damage. I roll low on the check and they hold. 

One unit of Brute hordes can't get in, and just has to sit patiently. Their frontage isn't bonkers, but we had this issue in the previous game of the day as well. I must be positioning things poorly.

Herd reforms on the right.

The Hunters countercharge their horde, joined by the other Guardian Brute Horde. The Trappers move up, and if I can break the horde, I can limit what hits my Brutes in the coming turn. We'll take this horde to 17 damage, but roll higher, and pick do it up. The Hunters overrun, and the Brutes sidestep to make way for the other horde to join in the fights in the coming turns.

Top of Round 3: Undead

The Undead get 3 Swords for their Command Dice, which as we've mentioned in other reports, seems to be about right for not buying additional dice. With just 3 Swords to play with, the Command Orders are some combination of rerolls and Endurance.

On the right, the Zombie Trolls are within the Vicious aura from the Necromancer, and will pummel the Tribal Trappers and the overrun. The Goreblights charge in against the Guardian Brutes, hitting them with the cloak, and then hitting for 6 more. 

The other Goreblight heads off the hill, spreading Cloak of Death out to my Tribal Spearmen. His extra attack roll is poor, and when all is said and done, the Hunters of the Wild are on 4, holding strong.

The stronger zombified units crash in.

The surviving Zombie horde counter-charges the Tribal Trappers to pick them up and make use of the Giant Rats upgrade to Lifeleech 2 back. The impassable wall prevents them from sliding down, and the Tribal Spears are still in front-arc.

I goofed and don't have any Inspiring up here. This could have gone way worse for me.

Centrally, the Soul Reavers have one charge, and they and the Vampire Lord try to carve up the Centaurs. Dice Gods abandon my opponent's rolling though, and only 9 damage lands when the dust settles. It should be more like 15 damage. Rubbing salt in the wounds, the Centaurs are found to be insanely courageous... I am sorry Jeff.

The Werewolves claw down their Centaur unit, but fall short on the needed overrun.

On the left, the Necromancer is no longer Hexed, and things are damaged now, and he is able to Heal up the Werewolves to full as they ravage the Centaurs here. They try to overrun to get out of arc of the Wiltfather, but they do not. Looks like they would need at least another inch, maybe two. 

The remaining Deathpack lands 2 damage on the Forest Warden, and a good check wavers him.

Bottom of Round 3: Herd

I roll up 5 Swords for my Command Dice.

On the left, the Forest Warden holds. I consider charging the Necromancer, but the Hunters do eventually come in from the flank, dealing 11 damage, and will pick up the unit, and then victoriously change facing, ending in front of the Warden.

More multi-charges from the Herd.

The Wiltfather does take the flank charge, with the Forest Shamblers hitting the front. The hits are bad but the Vicious aura is great, and we take the Werewolves up to 17 damage, and will get the rout.

Reforms for the Herd.

I again am tripping over myself a bit. I feel like I am used to minimizing losses, not pressing advantages with the Herd. Jeff was graciously taking the dice in stride and being patient with my photos and thinking aloud as I figured out my moves. The insane Centaurs counter-charge the Soul Reavers. I originally want to charge the Soul Reavers with the Brutes, but realize that the Vampire Lord should be hanging over, so maybe I charge her instead? It's not a bad plan since the Vampires will be locked up, but this positioning is incorrect: the Centaurs should not have shuffled that far over. I can charge the Vampire, but won't be able to overrun into that combat if I get her.

Thankfully, from a rules perspective at least, the Guardian Brutes only land 9 damage, and only waver her. The Centaurs land a few into the Soul Reavers, who hold.

Herd charges in the midfield.

I'm desperately running my Great Chieftain over towards the fights on the right so that I have some Inspiring over here. 

The Tribal Spears charge the maimed Zombies, pick them up and overrun.

Charges on the right.

The Hunters of the Wild counter-charge the Goreblight, go crazy, and land 5 damage, about double what would be expected.

Reforms on the right.

I sent both Guardian Brute hordes into the other Goreblight. One is a countercharge (and that unit gets Unshakable Will to regenerate down to 4 damage), and the other in a clean charge, but my dice flake out, and only 11 damage is done. (The clean charge should do around 10.) Still, I've got Brutal, and the Nerve checks are good, and we do pick the monster up. 

The injured horde holds, ready to take the charge from the Zombie Trolls, and the other backs up. My thinking here is that I don't want the Goreblight winning and overrunning past me. If I can't react to it next turn, it can do some screwy Shambling charges.

Top of Round 4: Undead

I don't know if we even rolled Command Dice here. Things are dire and a reroll or single damage heal isn't going to tip the scales back.

The Zombie Trolls smash through the Guardian Brutes and overrun, but can't get out of arc.

The Zombie Trolls break through the opposing horde.

The Goreblight breaks through the Hunters of the Wild on the second try, and is able to overrun out of arc of the Tribal Spear horde.

Fights with the vampires.

The Soul Reavers roll better this time, landing 14 into the Centaurs, but their options are limited. As mentioned above, I aligned things incorrectly, and they should be able to overrun if they wanted to.

Movement for the Undead.

The Necromancer heals the Vampire for a good chunk, but she's wavering, and staying engaged.

Bottom of Round 4: Herd

I neglect to roll Command Dice as well.

The Guardian Brutes pick up the Vampire Lord on the second try, and then due to bad positioning, can overrun into the Soul Reavers. I believe they are "in" enough to have gotten hit by Cloak of Death, the Brutes do 10, and the now-uninspired Reavers are bested in a combat that should never have been. Apologies to my opponent. 

Charges for the Herd.

The Wiltfather charges the healing Necromancer, Cloak of Death hits, and the legendary tree knocks him for just 5 more damage, but it is enough to break him. 

The Forest Warden grabs a token and holds it. Next turn he could make a play for the one on the hill with the Hunters of the Wild backing up to grab this one since it is Round 4. The Forest Shamblers scooch up towards the invulnerable central token.

Positioning for the Herd on the right.

Out on the right, the Great Chieftain arrives to keep the Spears Inspired, and the Druid races towards this side of the board as well. The Tribal Spears advance, and then pivot 90 degrees to secure a token, and spy the rear of the Goreblight.

I opt to flank the scarier Zombie Trolls in an attempt to pick the unit up. This is a Pathfinding charge for me and clean, and we do manage to just devastate the unit, rout it, and then spin to get the Goreblight into front-arc. The monster shambles, but its options are limited. 

Top of Round 5: Undead

The Goreblight takes the hindered charge into the Brutes, and the Necromancer lurks, providing Inspiring and Vicious. The Brutes get hit by Cloak of Death, and take 3 more in melee to bring them to 6 damage, and they hold.

The hindered Goreblight vents its frustrations.

It's a quick turn. This is all my opponent has left on the battlefield, but he soldiers on.

Bottom of Round 5: Herd

The Great Chieftain charges the Necromancer, lands 3 and picks him up.

Final charges from the Herd.

The Tribal Spears are not majority on the hill, and no longer in the rear of the Goreblight, but still charge the monster, with the Brutes counter-charging from the front. 

The Herd controls only a few tokens in Round 5, but the Undead have no units at all remaining on the field, so this is an overwhelming victory for the Herd!

Game Conclusions

I think the game basically comes down to the efficacy of multi-charges vs single charges. In Round 2, the Herd had basically every unit fighting, and those were all multi-charges with good chances to rout that did indeed gave me numerous victories, and while the Undead did get a few multi-charges in throughout the game, nothing broke, and overall they mostly made single, delaying charges, which could not hold the line.

Testing Conclusions

• Tribal Spears, Chalice. With something to block for them (Trappers), they were able to make it into combat. They had a great game but definitely had some luck. 
• Tribal Trappers. They worked really well paving the way for the Tribal Spears. They shot Zombies and still didn't do a ton, so I think one definitely wants to prioritize positioning for charges over positioning for shots with them. These had a really good game.
• Hunters of the Wild Troops. Defense 5 let them hold on in instances where something like Harpies would have routed. A real hammer should easily take them off, but with thoughtful positioning they might be able to bait stuff out to punish it. I liked them!
• Guardian Brutes x3. I spread them out a little bit this game, and think that's probably the key to running three hordes. Their frontage is only 120, but Speed 6 slows them down enough that all three have trouble engaging down the line. With multi-charges, they were able to do a lot this game, but definitely had some luck since they were not Inspired.
• Forest Shamblers. I had tried them at least once before and was unimpressed as they didn't seem to do a lot. Hitting on 4's with CS1 they are definitely not hammers, and Def5 with -/17 they were expensive and ineffective anvils. I liked them here though. With other stuff scouting up with them, there was more of a battle line here and a lot of pressure. Running them alongside the Wiltfather seemed like a good call as well.
• Centaur Bray Striders. They had a great match up with not a lot of speed opposing them, so were able to do what I needed this game. 
• Great Chieftain and the Sacred Horn of the Great Migration. I again like the concept here, and deploying with the Spears was a better call. Still, Triple Brutes are not a good pairing for him, so we'll need to try one or the other I think. If I don't got Guardian Brutes and Brutal, then he becomes much more interesting.
• Druid with BC. I was most worried about the Soul Reavers, but I think I should have put her our on the right since that flank was not Inspired. 
• Forest Warden. Running him next to the Wiltfather was silly as that is two sources of Inspiring, but the terrain and tokens kinda dictated all that. I was able to leave him behind for a turn to burn a token and then come up to help. He had some hot dice and a great game. These scoring heroes tend to be strong as long as they are cheap. 
• Wiltfather. Yeah, strong, especially when supported. I think I did a good job with him and with supporting him, and that seems like a strong contender to lead future Herd lists, ubiquitous as he is.
• 3x Red Command Dice. Oddly, this highlighted the Order disparity in a different light. The Undead have far better Orders than me, but not buying additional dice, struggled to make use of orders. The Herd arguably have worse Orders, but we were able to make good use of them and the extra dice all game, really pressing advantages.

I really loved the look of Jeff's army, as well as it's theme, even it it was just "what's painted."  The entire army had a suitably grim style, and was just neat to see since how someone else approached the army since I've been looking at them more myself lately. The Undead have some neat keyword interactions, and seeing distinct battle groups exploring some of those auras and interactions was a lot of fun for me. He plays Forces of nature as well, so we had a good time chatting and comparing ideas throughout the game and I came away with a lot to chew on. I don't think I got to properly thank him again before he left for the night, so Jeff, thanks for the game!