Intro and Lists
I was in Milwaukee for two games, and while my opponent had brought a second list featuring some Surge and Fire Elementals and such, he really liked how this first list had performed, so opted to run the same list from Battle 018 in our rematch. He ran the following again:
The list had an elite and sturdy center of Ceremonial Guard, Ancients, and Primes would hold the line, supported by the Pale Rider, an Ancient Phoenix and two Mage Priests to get access to Fireballs and Heal and Bane Chant. Two hordes of Rhinosaur Cavalry and a kitted out fling Clan Lord on Fire Drake would likely overload a flank and push forward hard. It was a very sturdy list with a lot of healing.
- Triple Flamebearers. What match-up will they get this time? How will they perform?
- Abyssal Horsemen. I continue to use heavy cavalry rather poorly. I still like the concept of this unit, but keep failing. How will they do this time?
- Chroneas. Testing a new big bad monster thing! It can remove damage from nearby friendly units be causing some damage in melee, so it seems like it wants to be fighting, so I will try to obligue and give it a good test.
- Molochs without sacrificial Imps. I had been taking the imp upgrade as a reflex, so I wanted to try them without it this time. We'll see if that works or will bite me.
- Seductress with Windblast. I still think the Seductress is great. I took the Windblast spell. I like Windblast as a concept, but could never quite get it to work in 2nd, largely due to lack of games and experience. With the points saved from the Imps, I'm having another try at the spell, so we'll see how and if it gets used.
- Manifestation of Ba'el. It is proving to not be as killy as I assumed, but still provides a ton of utility with Regeneration, Stealthy and Lightning Bolt. The From the Pit I Curse Thee" ability is some neat disruption, so we'll see if that gets used as well, like to disrupt some Rhinosaurs.
- Low Inspiring Abyssals. I didn't bring a ton of Inspiring stuff with this list, and two of my three sources are fliers that will probably be off and doing their own thing. Will this bite me?
Table, Deployment, and Scenario
We rearranged some terrain, keeping the standard height 9 buildings as impassable terrain, height 2 obstacles, height 3 hills, height 1 difficult terrain pond, and height 6 forests. We decided to stick with some objectives. I offered up Raze and Salt the Earth, and we went with Raze. However, in flipping between the scenarios, we set it up right, but I completely missed everything about how this scenario scores. He and I have even played this scenario before, though it was back in July.
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| The board. |
My opponent placed Objectives 1-3 and I placed 4-6, though we did alternate (1-4-2-5-3-6). The red token is the center objective, as my opponent only had 6 of the cool marker zones. The modifications we accidentally made were playing this were as follows:
- The central Objective can be controlled and contested as normal.
- You can control the Objectives you placed.
- Each Objective you control will score you a point at the end of the game. Normally if you control it, you can claim it, gain a permanent point, and remove it from the battlefield.
- You can only contest the Objectives placed by your opponent.
I had the book open so this is entirely my fault for goofing on the scenario scoring. I have not quite made it through all the scenarios yet, so I unfortunately need to refamiliarize with each and every one as it comes up again. Hopefully I'll get better with the scenario accuracy over time! Sorry!
For deployment, one of my pictures got corrupted, but I got most of it here. My opponent went with a somewhat refused flank, occupying only about half the table to focus on the two same-side objectives of his. The Rhinosaurs and Clan Lord took the table edge, looking to bully that flank. The Ancient Phoenix sat nearby to support. The line of Primes, Ceremonial Guard and Ancients took the center, with the sturdy Ancients on the flank of the line. These were supported by the two Mage Priests and Pale Rider again. The Komodon artillery monster sat on the far flank of his battle line. It is height 3 and ignores obscured, so should have a decent field of view on the center, and anything of mine that tries to take the central hill as the game progresses.
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| The picture from my left is broken, so to kick things off, we have the center. |
With most objectives on the left side, I figured the Rhinosaurs and such would be coming down here. I wanted to place the Molochs and Chroneas here, but donked up the measurements with a nearby building that split my line. Molochs are very wide! A unit of Molochs, Gargoyles, Imps, the Chroneas and the Lower Abyssals all hold my left flank. The other Molochs deployed nearby, just on the other side of the pesky building.
Opposing the Salamander infantry in the center were my Flamebearers. I decided to deploy all three more shoulder-to-shoulder this time to try and focus fire more. The Seductress and second unit of Imps flanked the Flamebearers, looking to intercept any threats to them, and the former able to Inspire them if needed.
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| The surprise threat coming from my right. |
I again outdropped my opponent. Instead of forming up on the same flank, I opted to go wide. As I recall the Gargoyles, Horsemen and Manifestation of Ba'el all came down pretty late for me, and were threatening to swing wide and hit the Salamander line from the side. My opponent continued to win the roll offs, and again made me take first turn.
Top of Round 1: Forces of the Abyss
As in the previous game, making me go first was a good call by my opponent. He has nothing in his list that scouts here, and my list is very similar, so I am again down a full turn of my Flamebearer shooting.
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| Everything creeps up. A bit. |
My left hops up around 5". The my center creeps up just 2" I think. Unconcerned, the Imps on my flank hop up to contest Objective 1, should my opponent get any ideas... this is a bit overzealous, but betting them forward will also be better if I need to intercept anything. With nothing from my opponent on this side of the table, they aren't blocking line of sight or anything by moving on up.
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| The Imps are again drawn towards the objectives... |
Completely uncontested, my quick right flank zips up to exert pressure. Thankfully, I was able to deploy the Horsemen late and angle them, so they are able to gallop their full 16" forward. The flying Gargoyles join them, ending up just a little ahead of the Horsemen. The Manifestation led from the front, moving nearly the full 20" and already threatening the flanks of a few things in the battle line of the Salamanders.
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| This flank is quick! |
With movement done but nothing to really roll for here, I pass the turn.
Bottom of Round 1: Salamanders
My quality of my opponent's forces on the left are higher, but I do have more stuff. He marks out my charge distances and gets just a bit behind them. Being quicker, he should be able to charge me next turn, and positions an inch or two back in order to do that, while denying me anything on my upcoming turn. All standard posturing and positioning.
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| The dance around the Rhinosaurs and Clan Lord continues into this game. |
The Ceremonial Guard, Ancients and Pale Rider all move and pivot to deny the Manifestation any flank charges and brace for all the speedy elements I have running up.
The Komodon spews, and blasts into 3 damage against the objective-loving Imps, who hold. All turtled up, and with no melee combats to work through, my opponent passes the turn back.
Top of Round 2: Forces of the Abyss
The hills are funky at the shop, with a bunch of crags on the ends. We are ignoring the crags, but I ask my opponent if his intent was to be on the hill with the Ceremonial Guard. They look like they are to me, and he confirms that yes, they look to be on the hill to him as well.
The Manifestation pivots, flies 10" over to the other side of the building and nimbly pivots again to face the Salamander center. Having just moved his speed, he can cast a spell, and casts his a Lightning Bolt into the Ceremonial Guard. The Flamebearers all move up to get within 18", and they all throw unbothered into the Guard as well. I believe we technically get the Ceremonial Guard into double digits of damage. To cap off the ranged phase, I throw a Wind Blast at them, pushing them back a few inches. Ultimately, the Ceremonial Guard do hold, but if memoery serves, I think they did need the reroll to stick around since the first Nerve Check was blazing hot.
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| There we go. Fire everything! |
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| Mid movement Top of 2. |
I like the chaos I am causing on the right, so the left, I back up, denying charges to everything but the plucky Imps, hoping to stretch out my opponent's lines a bit.
Bottom of Round 2: Salamanders
I look to have missed a picture here. The Pale Rider charges the Gargoyles in the back field and routs them, then pivots slightly back towards the middle, but still wary of the Abyssal Horsemen, and keeping them in the front arc. Things shuffle about. All the Heals are pushed towards the Ceremonial Guard, and I think all but 3 damage is removed, much to my dismay. On the left, the Rhinosaurs and Clan Lord move up again. I believe the Clan Lord uses its Firebreath against the Imps, and they take a few damage and are removed. This was a great use of the Firebreath attack.
Top of Round 3: Forces of the Abyss
While they were indeed pushed back, the Ceremonial Guard had advanced again on my opponent's turn, retaking the hill. However, the Primes are now on the hill as well. I decide to throw into the smaller unit. The Flamebearers scooted up to get into get into range with a few inches to spare, and Manifestation of Ba'el swooped up to exert some flying pressure while unleashing more lightning. The regiment proves and easier target, and is routed with this volley. While the Manifestation is a bit forward, he is still out of charge range of the Ceremonial Guard, and out of range and arc of the Ancients.
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| I think this was just prior to the next salvo. |
My opponent is looking to pressure the left and make use of all these expensive hammers. The Seductress Wind Blasts the more central unit of Rhinosaurs back a few inches. It's a nuisance, but I don't think actually changes anything for the coming turn.
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| Messy on the left here. |
Bottom of Round 3: Salamanders
The Salamanders take those messy charges on my left. The Clan Lord and Rhinosaurs with the Blessing of the Gods attack the Lower Abyssals. The other horde attack the Gargoyles, and the Phoenix gets close to trigger Shroud of Death on some Abyssal units, though the Chroneas is a bit out of range of the effect.
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| The 1 Damage here is from Shroud of Death. Don't worry, the melee was far more violent! |
The Lower Abyssals and Gargoyles are both easily routed. Victorious, the Clan Lord pivots to prevent the Chroneas from being able to pivot and double charge the Rhinosaurs on the far side along with the Molochs. I agree to this. However, we do not have the same talk regarding the Clan Lord's positioning. The Rhinosaurs that defeated the Lower Abyssals change facing towards the center of my depolyment zone, wary of the other Moloch horde.
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| The center, at the end of Round 3 |
The center of the Salamanders pushes up, with the Ceremonial Guard getting another healing effect and looking to close the distance to start brawling with the Flamebearers. The Ancients meander forward to try and threaten the Abyssal Horsemen, as the Pale Rider and a Mage Priest throw ranged spells at them, scoring some damage against the cavalry.
Top of Round 4: Forces of the Abyss
There was an obstacle behind the building, and I figured I would not be able to break either Salamander unit, especially with a hindered charge, and thus would be fighting against both in the following turns. I think they can grind a little better than normal cavalry, but not that well. The Abyssal Horsemen were drawing the attention of a significant amount of things, so I have them back up out of charge range, to preserve them for later, and due to their cowardice, they do not regenerate anything at all.
The Manifestation of Ba'el doesn't have a great charge. He'd be going in to the front of the Ceremonial Guard, as the nearest Rhinosaur unit is a few inches out of range. I think I will need him to win the left flank though, so he flies up far, getting a lot of flank edges into his new charge arc.
On the left, the positioning hadn't really changed. We had discussed the Rhinosaurs being protected from a multi-charge and agreed to that. Revisiting the flank on my turn though... I see I have at least a third of the Clan Lord's flank edge in the charge arc of my Molochs. Declaring the multicharge, the Chroneas hits the Clan lord in the front, shuffling to center, and then a pivot and move gets the Molochs into the flank.
This was unfortunate for my opponent, but hard to avoid with just combat reforms. My opponent had actively looked to avoid a multicharge against the Rhinosaurs on the far side and achieved that. But we have several inches between us, so that safety can only happen if the Clan Lord stays put to effectively zone out the Chroneas pivots and moves. Had the Clan Lord backed up, it would have been protected from this flank charge (especially ignoring the corner-clipping charges), but then I could have multi-charged the Rhinosaurs, which he explicitly didn't want.
The Molochs and Chroneas knock the Clan Lord off the Fire Drake. The victorious Chroneas backs to to try and give itself options next turn, and the Molochs change facing to square up with the Rhinosaurs on the far flank. The the other infernal horde charges into the Rhinosaurs nearer the building, who hold.
Bottom of Round 4: Salamanders
The Rhinosaurs strike back, and the Phoenix is still around here, healing with the aura and with the spell while hurting the Abyssals with the Shroud of Death. Unhindered and unbloodied, one horde smashes and routs the Molochs on the fark flank. The other horde, which looks to have been healed to full, countercharges the other Molochs. The Molochs take so much damage they get into "needing Inspiring Courage" range and are routed with boxcars, twice, but as we remove them, my opponent realizes the Rhinosaurs were disordered and countercharging, and should have rolling to damage on 4's not 2's. The Chroneas's time rifts were too strong here for us! My opponent insists we rewind, and this time, far less damage is done and the Molochs do hold.
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| Violence follows the Rhinosaurs. As usual. They are quite the powerful unit! |
The Salamanders shoot more ranged attacks at the Horsemen. I think one of the Mage Priests does get a heal off on the Ceremonial Guard, but with the Phoenix and it's aura and heal elsewhere, the damage is finally starting to stick around on the Ceremonial Guard.
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| The Ceremonial Guard advances at the double, looking to kill something next round. |
In the center my opponent advances as far as he can with the Ceremonial Guard, but he can't quite catch the Flamebearers yet. I've been diligent with keeping them about 16" away from their targets and they started scooting back again last turn, fading back into the forest. Still, I think the Ceremonial Guard should stomp through any Flamebearer unit it catches, and it should catch something next turn.
Top of Round 5: Forces of the Abyss
The Manifestation of Ba'el charges the Blessed Rhinosaurs in the flank while the Molochs with the new lease on life attack again from the front. The Rhinosaurs here are ground down.
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| A very bloody flank. The Chroneas has Shroud of Death too, but I forgot to trigger that all game. |
I didn't want to leave the Rhinosaur unit untouched again, so opt to have Chroneas charge the other horde in the front, dealing a few damage and disordering them. Losing the Thunderous Charge 2 should let the Chroneas survive the counter attack from the Rhinosaurs next turn. I maybe should have kept the Manifestation facing this flank, but I do not. It is Round 5 after all, and wanted the Ceremonial Guard in its sights to apply pressure, and the freedom to play the objectives as needed for Round 6.
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| The Ceremonial Guard are routed, and things are looking good for the Forces of the Abyss. |
In the center, I consider having the Seductress speed-bump for the Flamebearers, but my opponent reminds me that horde would then overrun into the Flamebearers anyways. The Seductress flies to get into the flank facing of the Ceremonial Guard instead. With no significant heals, the damage had added up a little since the last salvo. The trio of Flamebearers throw into the Ceremonial Guard again, piling on more damage. The Seductress then Wind Blasts them a few inches sideways. Only the right-most Flamabearer should be reachable for a charge now, due to pivots and angles, and that should be a hindered charge into the woods. This should maximize the chances of survival for the Flamebearers. It is decent planning from me. However, with the lapse in heals, the damage accumulates nicely, and the Ceremonial Guard are crisped and routed.
The Abyssal Horsemen pivot and move to get behind the building. The building blocks charges from the Ancients and the Pale Rider, and line of sight from the latter completely for now. The Ancients are only Speed 4, so could probably move at the double to claim Objective 1, but would not be able to charge the Imps who are a little too far away. Should they claim the Objective though, they would get their bread buttered by the Abyssal Horsemen. Since we donked up the scenario rules and were not removing claimed objectives... well, this is a pretty bad proposition for the Ancients, so they are effective zoned out.
Bottom of Round 5: Salamanders
My opponent concedes on this turn and I fail to record any of the particulars, either with photos or with notes. Round 4 was quite distressing, and with how we goofed the scenario, this is looking rather grim for him in the long run.
Game Conclusions
Goofing the scenario is unfortunate. It's just reading, but I usually compartmentalize it, skimming for the important part I need at the moment, like how to set it up. The only upside here was that we were both wrong from the beginning, and therefore both on the same page. I should start to recognize the scenarios better with some more games played and this should hopefully happen less frequently. My apologies to my opponent for the mix-up. It would have been closer had we been scoring the scenario correctly, but I think I would still have had the edge going into the late game even if we had been playing correctly.
I would say that I definitely learned from the first game, though still have much room for improvement, which makes sense as I am bouncing around playing all sorts of lists and not fine tuning things. While I would have liked to have had both Molochs on the flank, I failed to measure that out, but that turned out ok in the end, as the second group coming in from the side was probably more concerning than a straight-on brawl would have been.
The biggest deployment improvement for me was holding off a bit on the Flamebearers, in order to get them all deployed together opposite the Ceremonial Guard. Even this was still not great given the hill that I didn't quite account for, but ultimately this worked out too.
I was able to put some very scary things out on the flank very late during deployment, and with a good juke from the Manifestation, really split the Salamander lines up. The Horsemen continued to distract, which let me mess up the Salamander center. The Lightning Bolt dice were a little spikey, but everything else seemed pretty normal. Better deployment led to better match-ups for everything, and that situation negated the need for me to feel like I needed to go for greedy plays. Overall I think I just played a good game this time around.
Testing Conclusions
- Triple Flamebearers. With better deployment, I was able to focus fire, and doing that against better targets, hey, go figure, these performed much, much better than the last game! It seems that I am starting to learn the army a little better. I will need to keep their deployment needs in mind for future games. Regiments have been fine, but I may try downsizing to troops to mix things up.
- Abyssal Horsemen. I mean, they survived this time, which is a plus. I think I am still ultimately unimpressed with them right now, and I think I should be looking for a replacement to get some speed into the list collection.
- Chroneas. It did ok, but it wasn't a very extensive test. I forgot to trigger my own Cloak of Death at all, but the monster looks to have some promise, especially alongside some powerful Molochs.
- Seductress with Windblast. Given the lack of Inspiring in the list, I was holding her back just in case, but that did let me test out Wind Blast. It was a nuisance for sure, but wasn't that impactful. I had tried a bit in 2nd Edition to make this work, and still don't quite "get" it. I think there are better uses for the Seductress.
- Manifestation of Ba'el. I was also able to make good use of the Lightning Bolt, adding in some extra damage to support the Flamebearers. He wasn't in any real danger this game, and with just the threat of being around contributed a lot, so I think I really used him well. I haven't tried the "From the Pit" ranged attack to disorder things yet (that might be some nice anti-Rhinosaur tech, though getting close enough to still use a ranged attack might be difficult), but overall, I think I am starting to get the hang of him. He's not even as killy as even the General on Winged Beast from the Kingdoms of Men, but has more utility and tricks it seems.
- Low Inspiring Abyssals. Since the Chroneas was with the Molochs and the Seductress with the Flamebearers, I didn't really have any issues. I think if I built my lists smarter, and focused on having little battle groups like my opponent here does, I could stand to run just a few sources.
Thanks again to my opponent for braving the snow to get this pair of afternoon games in!
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